Nathaniel Comfort, PhD, author of The Science of Human Perfection: How Genes Became the Heart of American Medicine and a forthcoming biography on James Watson, talks about medical genetics and eugenics as "two sides of the same coin," and cautions that there is no simple, bright line between the two pursuits.

KEY TOPICS

• Reading from The Science of Human Perfection: How Genes Became the Heart of American Medicine by Nathaniel Comfort, PhD
• How should clinicians and prospective parents think about the argument that there is no bright line between genetic interventions to relieve suffering v. human engineering or population improvement?
• What are the contingent problems created between distinguishing between genetic interventions for a fatal disease v. a non-fatal disease?
• How did the end of World War II and the dropping of the atomic bombs rejuvenate Americans' interest in science and genetic disease?
• How do we talk about genetics today in a way that embraces the actual complexity of the science?
• In the current moment of sea change, what is the cultural authority of science in the United States?
• Discussion of Dr. Comfort's new biography of James Watson, his enormous contributions to the field of human genetics and also his downfall.

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In this open and vulnerable conversation, host Susanna Smith talks with Tiffany Graham Charkosky, author of Living Proof: How Love Defied Genetic Legacy, about their shared experiences of living with genetic risks, in Tiffany's case Lynch syndrome and in Susanna's case CADASIL. They chat about the unique psychological state of living for decades as a healthy person who is also at risk of a serious disease, their feelings of guilt, responsibility, and shame, and the spaciousness that can be found in contemplating your own death.

Resources

Tiffany Graham Charkosky. Living Proof: How Love Defied Genetic Legacy. Little A Publishing. 2025.

Tiffany Graham Charkosky. Why I'm Participating in a Cancer Vaccine Trial. Oprahdaily.com. Sept. 29, 2025.

https://tiffanygrahamcharkosky.com

Brought to you by The Tell Me Project.

Summary

Alexandra Minna Stern, PhD, author of Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate talks about how the American far right views genetics, genetic technologies, eugenics, and science and the emerging political threat of 21st century eugenics ideology and policies.

Episode Transcript available at: https://www.geneticfrontiers.org/transcript-ep-12

Key Topics

• How does the American far right view genetics and genetic technologies?

• What is the history of the American pursuit of choosing smarter children?

• What has science shown us about the relationship of heredity and intelligence?

• How does the idea of eugenics influence the current administration?

• How does the American far right use the concept of time?

• What is the metapolitic? How does it influence our political future?

Resources

• Alexandra Minna Stern. Proud Boys and the White Ethnostate: How the Alt-Right is Warping the American Imagination. Beacon Press. 2019.

• The Natal Conference 2025

• Southern Poverty Law Center. Profile: Charles Murray. Accessed July 18, 2025.

• Feb. 18, 2025. Fact Sheet: President Donald J. Trump Expands Access to In Vitro Fertilization (IVF). Available at: whitehouse.gov. Accessed July 18, 2025.

• C-span clip from Health and Human Services Secretary Kennedy News Conference on Autism Rates. Accessed July 18, 2025

• Autism Society. Statement on Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s Comments Regarding the Cause of Autism and Misleading Deadline. Accessed July 18, 2025

• Lisa Ko. Unwanted Sterilization and Eugenics Programs in the United States. Independent Lens blog on PBS.org. January 29, 2016

• Buck v. Bell | 274 U.S. 200 (1927)

• Sterilization and Social Justice Lab

• Genetic Frontiers. Episode 6: The Eugenesis of Genetic Counseling with guest, Alexandra Minna Stern, PhD.

• Alexandra Minna Stern. Telling Genes: The Story of Genetic Counseling in America. John Hopkins University Press: 2012.