Matt Harper is the President of Invinity Energy Systems, the maker of vanadium-flow batteries. Matt was on the podcast in 2022 and now provides an update. A strong alternative to lithium-ion batteries, the benefits of flow batteries produced by Invinity are numerous: "Unlimited cycling" (30-year lifetimes with 20,000+ cycles); they can discharge 8 - 10 hours every day; they have zero fire risk; and Invinity units are modular and stackable. Furthermore, vanadium is the 13th most common metallic element in the Earth's crust. There is more vanadium than copper or nickel, and Matt notes that it is found everywhere. The end result is that Invinity's flow batteries have the lowest lifecycle MWh delivered cost for energy storage.

Invinity now has 190 MWh of installed systems and in construction all over the world. Matt details 96 installations in 17 countries, including Canada, Australia, the United Kingdom, and Hungary. In fact, right after the podcast recording, Matt is flying off to India, a country that is in great need for clean energy resources... and long duration energy storage will play a pivotal role there. Ted asks about Hungary why Matt has called it a "hotbed" for flow batteries. Matt describes the country's impressive view of grid infrastructure and how the government stepped in there to stabilize and optimize its power grid. Matt also describes Invinity's work in Australia, home to one of Invinity's largest projects. He also provided an update on an intriguing Scottish project where Invinity batteries are buffering between tidal power and electrolyzing hydrogen 24*7, a project where tidal power is harvesting the ebb and flow of the tides. Matt calls this a "punishing duty cycle," well suited to flow batteries.

The conversations shifts to the United States where Invinity is currently starting 3 - 4 projects that rely on long-term storage. The batteries are supported by the California Energy Commission. Invinity provides products for grid-scale storage and directly to the commercial and industrial sector for behind the meter installations. Flow batteries are a nice fit for microgids and energy resilience... with projects at Harrah's Casino and at Pacific Northwest Labs. Another project that Matt describes is at a casino and resort outside of San Diego. There, tribal ownership seeks to achieve full energy sovereignty for its large load including one of the world/'s largest EV charging stations. This creates "an incredibly challenging duty cycle," again, quite perfect for flow batteries.

Invinity is exploring expanding manufacturing in the U.S. to meet Production Tax Credits that accrue to manufacturers of energy storage, as well as tax credits for end-users when domestic content is higher. Matt notes that there are good sources of vanadium in the United States. And due to new regulations limiting emissions in maritime shipping, Invinity is exploring the use of waste stockpiles caused by stripping sulfur out of crude oil, laced with vanadium and other metals, potentially a new and attractive source of vanadium without additional mining and extraction.

Matt and Ted conclude with a discussion of Invinity's future role. The next step is greater scale. Matt also points out that the utility grid policy conversation has moved from "net zero" to "zero zero," a time where there will be no offsets... only clean power stored and discharged to meet onsite consumption patterns or grid capacity and reliability. Clearly Invinity's role in this vision and transition is important and on the rise.

Chéri Smith heads up the Alliance for Tribal Clean Energy. She'd been on the podcast in 2022 explaining the Alliance's operation then. She and Ted discuss the change in presidential administrations and its affect on tribes. While the Alliance is 100% supported by philanthropies, purposefully exempt from the volatility of changing administrations, the tribes that the Alliance supports were heavily impacted, with hundreds of millions lost and projects stranded, retarding the development of clean energy on reservations.

Since her last Eco-Logic episode, Chéri had a whole department writing grants and structuring projects. In 2024 that team wrote $800 million worth of applications for clean energy. Fully $490 million was awarded to 49 tribes. "But within four days after the inauguration.. money clawed out bank accounts, literally clawed out." She explains that there were no letters, only a "giant sucking sound." Programs were abruptly cancelled such as EPA's Solar for All program that was helping tribes put modest solar systems on homes, in cases providing power for the first time. Tax credits that provided up to 70% of the cost of solar installations, were eliminated.

There are 575 recognized tribes in America and another 100+ that are not recognized. Fully 229 tribes are Alaskan native villages. Chéri is of My'kyma descent, a tribe from Northern Maine and the Canadian Maritimes. She makes clear how profound the political changes have been to the tribes. They had begun to develop projects spurred by government funds and backed by third-party finance despite tribes generally being "allergic to debt."

The cancellation of many projects, and the loss of tax credits and other support programs, has eroded trust that had been building... the trust necessary to develop large-scale projects that can boost economic development on tribal lands. Chéri explains the impact to the Hopi after the closure of the coal-fired Navajo Generating Station. It had provided lease fees to the Hopi, creating a huge hole of lost revenues and lost jobs. A billion-dollar, utility-scale, 400 MW solar project to serve wholesale markets, was going to fill this gap and provide a pathway to prosperity going forward.

The conversation shifts to how the Alliance has adapted. The Alliance created the Indigenous Power and Light Fund in 2024 with a $100 million goal. So far it has raised $38 million from three primary philanthropists, money that is now being used for grants and loans to spur renewable energy projects, providing just-in-time capital, filling funding gaps, forming capital stacks where private markets won't. The Alliance is prioritizing clean energy projects that provide energy access, build climate resilience, lessen reliance on fossil fuels, and provide resources for climate and fire disasters.

Drawing inspiration from the tribes it serves, Chéri reports that the Alliance has grown despite discouraging federal policies. In the past two years, the Alliance staff has nearly tripled and the Alliance has added highly experienced professionals to its team and capabilities to better serve ~180 tribes. The Alliance has also formed the Tribal Energy Leadership Fellowship... an initiative to train tribal leaders in partnership with Haskell Indian Nations University, Harvard, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Ben Lochtenberg came to solar for good reason: He sees solar as an elegant energy solution, one that will keep on giving for years. His mission as the Founder and Managing Director of Xero Solar is to tap solar as a "perpetual" energy source and to promote a transition to a more resilient world. Xero is working to create a brighter future for all, through residential solar services as well as programs for underserved youth, neurodiverse children, as well as faith-based and spiritual communities.

Born in Australia, Ben spent his youth in England before his family migrated to America. His career led him to specialize in material science -- physics and chemistry -- working for big corporations on electronics, semiconductors, printed circuit boards, and solar cell fabrication. At the age of 48 he decided to form his own business. Undaunted by statistics that show that nine out of ten startups fail, Ben dug into solar, determined to succeed. He's still paranoid, and sites an author who wrote that "only the paranoid survive." The key is to always be on the look-out for what can go wrong and to plan for it.

Ted asks Ben about "the solar-coaster"... a term that Ben dismisses strongly: "I hate that term. It suggests that one has no control." Ted digs in given the recent and major blow to residential installations: "What about the loss of the residential investment tax credit?" Ben points to two factors: Fifteen years ago, when he started Xero, it cost twice as much to install as it does today, and that value in avoided utility costs then was half or less than it is today. His view is clear that we don't need tax credits, that solar is still a good deal without tax credits and utility incentives.

Ben discusses his business philosophy and operations. He believes in fair prices for suppliers, employees, and for customers. Too often customers are focused on the first cost of solar, rather than its long-term savings. Ben notes that choosing the lowest cost solar company may be the most expensive decision one ever makes. Charging a fair price gives Xero the ability to provide strong levels of customer service and support for the lifetime of the systems installed. Xero spends little on marketing its services. The best advocates are customers pleased with the services they receive, says Ben.

Ben wants Xero to have a potent impact... "to help people we touch." This starts with employees. His staff are grateful of his priorities... nurturing marriages, strong families, celebrating babies and home-buying. Leading his staff, Ben volunteers and teaches them about the fulfillment attained by giving. His mother taught him that this world is made up of takers and givers. The takers will never be satisfied, they always want more. "Those that give are blessed with so much more... givers have full hearts."

The conversation includes a discussion of the future integration of our cars with our homes. Ben has been tracking VGI, vehicle grid integration, for years. "It's a great idea as our cars sit idle 95% of the time." While not sure of its timing -- "it seems like it's been the technology of tomorrow for a long time" -- his passion for efficient utilization of resources - in this case batteries -- causes him to be excited about VGI, flattening utility load profiles and the duck curve, and optimizing the grid to drive down power costs for us all. Xero is future proofing its solar projects for the VGI future.