What happens when the system meant to protect you becomes the thing that wears you down? In this powerful episode of A Joyful Rebellion, James sits down with Lisa Johnson — educator, author, and co-founder of Been There Got Out — to talk about surviving legal abuse, reclaiming identity, and rebuilding life after a high-conflict divorce.

Lisa shares her deeply personal journey through a decade-long legal battle, representing herself in over 100 court appearances and ultimately helping shape case law. Together, she and James explore how abuse can hide in plain sight, why leaving often takes longer than people understand, and how awareness becomes the first act of rebellion.

This conversation moves from darkness into hope — showing how pain can transform into purpose, and how healing creates space for healthier relationships, stronger boundaries, and a new chapter of life. If you or someone you know has ever felt trapped in circumstances that seemed impossible to escape, this episode offers insight, validation, and a reminder that the air really is cleaner on the other side.

00:00 — Opening Hook Lisa explains the turning point: when staying became more painful than leaving.

02:15 — Introducing Lisa & the Concept of Legal Abuse How her story began and what “legal abuse” actually means.

03:40 — The Double Life & The Beginning of the Fight Discovery, fear, financial pressure, and the long road ahead.

04:57 — Representing Herself in Court From lawyer to pro se litigant — and arguing at the appellate level.

07:13 — Death by a Thousand Paper Cuts How the legal system can be weaponized.

08:29 — What She Learned About Family Court Why even educated, articulate people struggle inside the system.

09:18 — Rage, Injustice, and Despair The three emotions that defined the journey.

11:45 — Turning Pain Into Purpose Why she began helping others.

13:09 — Discovering the Term “Legal Abuse” The moment everything clicked.

14:05 — Building a Global Support Community From two people to an international network.

16:49 — How to Recognize Legal Abuse Early warning signs and high-conflict indicators.

23:33 — Invisible Forms of Domestic Violence Coercive control and why people miss the clues.

26:45 — The Frog in the Pot Analogy How abuse becomes normalized over time.

32:18 — The Moment She Finally Left Breaking point and emotional reality.

35:34 — Protecting the Kids During the Legal Battle Parenting through chaos.

44:24 — Writing the First Book How the message expanded into a larger mission.

47:51 — The Next Book & Alienation When an ex turns children against a parent.

49:14 — How Friends Can Help Someone in a Toxic Relationship What to say — and what NOT to say.

55:11 — Final Story & Message of Hope The reminder that life on the other side can be better than imagined.

• Been There Got Out (support resources & quiz)

• High Conflict Institute — Bill Eddy (BIF communication method)

• Local Domestic Violence Centers (general recommendation)

In the early 1990s, college soccer coach Scott Martin walked into an emergency room with flu-like symptoms. A month later, he woke from a coma to learn he had contracted necrotizing fasciitis — and that his mother and brother had been forced to choose between letting him die or amputating both hands and parts of his feet.

What followed wasn’t a cinematic comeback. It was 30+ years of pivots, depression, lawsuits, discrimination, reinvention, fatherhood, state championships, and a relentless rebuilding of identity.

Scott shares the moment he realized he was “faking it,” the malpractice trial that cracked him open, and the night he sat alone asking, “What the hell am I going to do now?” From rewriting how he coached to adopting five children internationally to reclaiming his confidence on the sidelines, Scott’s story is not about soccer — it’s about resilience that refuses to quit.

His new memoir, Play From Your Heart, explores loss, grit, and the long arc of recovery. This episode is a powerful reminder that resilience isn’t instant — it’s built over decades.

[00:00] “What the hell am I going to do now?” — the moment after the trial [03:00] Soccer as art: Jackson Pollock and the “beautiful game” [08:00] The Nike camp, sudden illness, and collapsing overnight [10:00] A month-long coma and the life-or-death decision [13:00] Faking strength for four years [18:00] Depression and the loss of confidence [22:00] The malpractice lawsuit and courtroom drama [25:00] Hitting bottom after the verdict [26:00] The pendulum moment: rebuilding alone [29:00] Writing the “Soccer Atlas” and coaching differently [32:00] Selling everything and moving west [34:00] Discrimination and rebuilding identity [35:00] Adopting five children internationally [43:00] Coaching underdogs to a state championship [46:00] 30 years later: when life finally felt “good” [48:00] “Turn off your brain. Play from your heart.” [49:00] Teaching by putting people “in a position to learn” [51:00] Education, resilience, and responsibility

• Memoir: Play From Your Heart (pre-sale via Library Tales Publishing)

• Email contact: reader.playfromyourheart@gmail.com

• Distributor: Simon & Schuster (in pipeline at time of recording)

Some people rebel by getting louder. Carrie Birde rebelled by getting gentler.

After years of writing in secret—carrying shame, creative fear, and a persistent who am I to do this?—Carrie finished A Small Tale of Uncommon Grace, a novel that intentionally pushes back against a culture saturated with noise and dystopia. Instead of resistance, the book is driven by acceptance. Instead of spectacle, it offers wonder. Nature is a living presence, hope is deliberate, and beauty is treated as essential rather than indulgent.

In this conversation, Carrie shares what it took to move from emotionally distant drafts to vulnerable, living pages—and how breaking long-held patterns finally allowed her to hear her own creative voice. We talk about writing methodically (her preferred term over “slow”), trusting quiet stories, and the courage required to let tender work be seen. She also reflects on small creative acts—turning newsprint into paper hearts, hanging origami cranes on a neighborhood wishing tree—as ways of choosing meaning when the world feels heavy.

If you’ve been keeping your creativity tucked away, this episode is an invitation to bring it into the light.

• [00:00] A quiet rebellion: why gentleness can be a radical act

• [01:00] Writing in secret and the fear of being seen

• [03:40] Holding the finished book; early creative life across mediums

• [06:00] From distance to vulnerability: rewriting with emotional presence

• [08:45] Breaking family patterns and shedding creative shame

• [12:50] “The world isn’t watching your every move” — freedom from imagined judgment

• [18:45] Writing against dystopia; nature as a character; choosing a hopeful ending

• [22:40] Meet Grace (19): conversation with the living world

• [26:30] Methodical writing, parking-lot epiphanies, and knowing the ending first

• [29:45] Teen beta reader finishes the book in a day: “Please write more”

• [36:00] Letting the book rest for years; fear of being “too quiet”

• [37:30] Finding the right boutique publisher and editorial partnership

• [48:30] Paper hearts, wishing trees, and choosing beauty anyway

• Novel: A Small Tale of Uncommon Grace — by Carrie Birde

• Publisher: Blind and Square Books (editor Tara Tomczyk)

• Creative practices: Paper-heart project (newsprint → handmade hearts), neighborhood wishing tree with origami cranes