How much of what we call “basic morality” is actually inherited from Christianity? Bart Ehrman joins Michael Shermer for a wide-ranging conversation about one of the biggest moral questions in history: why do we feel obligated to care for strangers at all?

Drawing from his new book Love Thy Stranger, Ehrman argues that the idea of helping people outside your tribe, family, or nation was not a moral given in the ancient world. Greek and Roman ethics made room for loyalty, friendship, and civic duty, but not for radical concern for the outsider. He makes the case that Jesus changed that moral equation—and that his teachings still shape the modern West, including many people who no longer consider themselves religious.

The conversation also covers Ehrman’s own path from evangelical Christianity to agnostic atheism, the problem of suffering, whether pure altruism really exists, and the difference between forgiveness and atonement.

Bart Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and The New York Times bestselling author of Misquoting Jesus and How Jesus Became God. His new book is Love Thy Stranger: How Jesus Transformed Our Moral Conscience.

Michael Shermer sits down with novelist and essayist Lionel Shriver for a wide-ranging conversation about what happens when old political labels stop making sense. Shriver reflects on the strange moral and political confusions that now shape debates over immigration, identity, religion, and the meaning of tolerance.

They discuss why immigration has become, in Shriver’s view, the central political issue of this century; why support for illiberal ideas is often framed as compassion; why the culture of fiction and publishing has grown more timid; and how writers can still engage seriously with divisive subjects without surrendering either honesty or nuance.

The conversation also turns personal: Shriver’s religious upbringing, her own personal experiences with immigration, and reflections on the diminishing cultural authority of the novelist.

Lionel Shriver is an author and journalist, a graduate of Columbia University, and a columnist for The Spectator. Her fiction confronts some of the defining issues of modern life: school shootings in We Need to Talk About Kevin, the cost of healthcare in So Much for That, economic instability in The Mandibles, aging and suicide in Should We Stay or Should We Go, and low intelligence and DEI in Mania. Her latest novel, A Better Life, takes up immigration from the perspective of the host.

Zion Lights used to be deep inside the environmental movement: protests, arrests, road blockades, the whole thing. Then she started looking closely at the evidence around nuclear power and found that much of what she’d been told about energy, risk, and climate solutions didn’t hold up.

In this conversation with Michael Shermer, she explains why anti-nuclear politics has done real damage, and why reliable energy matters far beyond moral posturing. She speaks from experience about Extinction Rebellion, energy policy in Germany and France, fear around Fukushima and Chernobyl, energy poverty, overpopulation, and why modern environmentalism so often attacks the very technologies that could help both people and the planet.

Zion Lights is a British science communicator, writer, author, and former environmental activist known for her pivot to advocacy of evidence-based environmental policy, particularly her support for nuclear energy as a tool for decarbonisation. She is a prominent voice in debates about climate change, energy policy, humanism, and the role of scientific reasoning in public discourse. Her new book is Energy is Life: Why Environmentalism Went Nuclear.