What does it take to guide visitors through histories that are genuinely contested and emotionally charged? In this episode, I'm joined by Brandon Dillard, Director of Historic Interpretation and Audience Engagement at Thomas Jefferson's Monticello, and Kelsie Paul, Director of Learning and Visitor Experience at the Frick Pittsburgh, to explore how both institutions have reimagined their guided experiences in response to the complicated legacies of their central historical figures.

We talk about the long evolution of interpretation at Monticello, from the site's earliest tours to the integration of slavery and the story of Sally Hemings into the core narrative. Kelsie shares the process behind the Frick's "Gilded, Not Golden" tour - a ground-up redesign of Clayton's 30-year-old house tour that involved consultants, an advisory board, difficult internal conversations and a willingness to start from scratch.

We also dig into what it means to support guides doing this work: hiring for empathy, investing in training, facilitating ongoing dialogue, and empowering guides to be facilitators rather than lecturers. And we reflect on the civic role of historic sites in a polarised moment, including how Monticello is approaching the 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence.

Whether you're working at a historic house, leading tours in any kind of museum or cultural space, or thinking about how to hold space for complexity in your guided programmes, I think you'll find a great deal to take away from this conversation.

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on Patreon

LinkedIn Kelsie: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kelsie-paul-39561b199/

Frick website: www.thefrickpittsburgh.org

Frick Instagram: @frickpittsburgh

Recent article on Clayton: https://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/places-we-love-clayton/

LinkedIn Brandon: www.linkedin.com/in/brandonmdillard

Monticello website: https://www.monticello.org/

Monticello Instagram: @tjmonticello

✨ If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting The Art Engager on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Or pick up a copy of my book, The Art Engager, for step-by-step guidance on creating meaningful, interactive guided experiences https://www.theartengager.com/

Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

In this episode Claire Bown is joined by Georgia Close and Harriet Body from the National Gallery of Australia, alongside Naomi Zouwer from the University of Canberra, to explore how the gallery co-designed its Creative Learning approach.

The conversation traces an 18-month process of articulating a shared pedagogical framework shaped by national context, cultural responsibility, and First Nations-led principles. Rather than adopting an existing model, the team worked through workshops, observation, interviews and iterative “campaigns” to develop a cohesive, values-led approach.

A key commitment was centring the artist’s voice, placing artist intention in conversation with students’ existing knowledge. From this, the team developed a Creative Learning strategy planning tool that supports inquiry-led, multimodal, embodied and reflective practice.

Across the episode, they explore:

1. How to develop a context-specific learning approach rather than importing a model
2. What it means in practice to centre the artist’s voice
3. How small, iterative “campaigns” can embed reflective practice in a team
4. How multimodality and embodiment deepen engagement beyond discussion
5. Why joy is understood as a serious pedagogical commitment
6. What co-design and participatory action research look like inside a museum setting

This episode will resonate with anyone working in museums, galleries or cultural institutions who is thinking carefully about pedagogy, reflective practice, and how to articulate an approach that genuinely reflects their context and values.

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on Patreon

https://nga.gov.au/learn/our-creative-learning-approach/

The Creative Learning Project Digital Publication: https://nga.gov.au/media/dd/documents/NGA_The_Creative_Learning_Project_Digital_Publication.pdf

Zouwer, N. & Hamilton, O. (2026). The Creative Learning Project: Defining the National Gallery of Australia’s Creative Learning Approach. 10.13140/RG.2.2.35063.28324

Zouwer, N., Hamilton, O., Menser Hearn, N., & Ali, I. (2026). Using Practice-Based Methods to Co-create, Define, and Articulate a New Approach to Art Education in the National Gallery of Australia. Australian Journal of Education, 0(0). https://doi.org/10.1177/00049441261421257

Georgia Close, Head of Learning, National Gallery of Australia

Harriet Body, Creative Learning Convenor, National Gallery of Australia

Harriet Body on LinkedIn

Naomi Zouwer, artist, teacher, and researcher. Lecturer of Creative Arts Teacher Education and a researcher in the...

In this episode Claire Bown is joined by Clare Murray to explore how early encounters with art and museums shape the way people learn to participate, belong, and engage over time.

Our conversation focuses on how what Clare describes as museum habits of mind begin forming early in life, shaped by access, culture, and experience, and what can be at risk when early encounters with art and museums are uneven, delayed, or absent.

Clare’s perspective is shaped by her work as co-founder and executive director of cARTie, Connecticut’s first nonprofit art museum bus for young children, alongside her doctoral research into how people come to understand what museums are and who they are for. She describes research and practice as running in parallel, rather than as separate phases.

The conversation looks at why early childhood matters as a time when confidence, hesitation, and ways of taking part in museum-like spaces begin to take shape. Clare shares what she notices when children encounter art and museum environments for the first time, and what they appear to be learning beyond information about the artworks themselves.

Across the episode, they reflect on:

1. how early encounters with art begin to shape museum habits of mind
2. how confidence and hesitation show up and evolve through repeated encounters
3. what children seem to pick up about how to take part in museum-like spaces
4. what can be missed when access to art and museum experiences is uneven or delayed
5. how research and practice can run in parallel, with each informing the other

This episode will be of interest to anyone working with children, art, or learning spaces, and to museum educators, guides, and facilitators interested in how early experiences shape longer-term relationships with museums.

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on Patreon

Clare Murray on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/murrayclare

Museum Design with, by and for Children: Innovative, International Approaches https://www.routledge.com/Museum-Design-with-by-and-for-Children-Innovative-International-Approaches/Murray/p/book/9781032774404

cARTie https://www.cartie.org/

cARTie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/ctcartie/

✨ If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting The Art Engager on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Or pick up a copy of my book, The Art Engager, for step-by-step guidance on creating meaningful, interactive guided experiences https://www.theartengager.com/

Buy it here on Amazon.com:

In this episode, Claire Bown is joined by Laurie Kilgour Walsh, Head of Programs and Learning at the Art Gallery of Hamilton, to explore what it takes to create meaningful, person-centred museum experiences with and for people living with dementia.

Our conversation centres on Artful Moments, a gallery-based, small-group programme for people living with dementia and their care partners. Based at the Art Gallery of Hamilton, the programme supports shared experiences, connection, and wellbeing through guided engagement with artworks.

In this episode, we talk about:

1. What Artful Moments is and how the programme was developed in collaboration with healthcare partners
2. How assumptions shifted as the work developed, and what has helped sustain the work over time.
3. What person-centred practice looks like in programme design and in the moment as a facilitator
4. Planning with care while staying responsive to participants during each session
5. Why success in this work is understood through connection and wellbeing rather than traditional learning outcomes
6. What an Artful Moments session looks like in practice, from first communication and arrival to gallery conversations, making activities, and leaving the museum
7. Why attention to the whole visit experience really matters

A great listen if you are developing or evolving programmes for people living with dementia, or are interested in how dementia-inclusive practice can inform everyday museum engagement and deepen your approach to inclusion, pacing, and person-centred facilitation.

Laurie is also the co-author of Artful Moments: Building Meaningful Museum Experiences for People Living with Dementia, which is discussed throughout the episode.

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on Patreon

Art Gallery of Hamilton website: www.artgalleryofhamilton.com

Artful Moments eLearning site: www.artfulmoments.ca

A link to the book - Artful Moments: Building Meaningful Museum Experiences for People Living with Dementia : https://www.bloomsbury.com/ca/artful-moments-9781538195420/

Laurie's two favourite videos from the website:

Janis’s Story https://vimeo.com/801998446/77939bc3d0

Rosemary's story: https://vimeo.com/809930852/fb94d13a5d

Also:

An article about virtual programs (2022) https://www.artgalleryofhamilton.com/artful-moments-fostering/

A lovely review of the website by Dementia Trust (2024):

In this episode, host Claire Bown is joined by Menka Sanghvi, researcher, writer, guide and founder of Just Looking. Menka’s work explores attention through science, culture and creativity, and encourages us to slow down and notice more in our everyday lives.

Together, we talk about why ordinary moments matter, how our attentional filters shape what we see and the social dimension of noticing. We also explore the pull of digital technology, the difference between algorithmic seeing and intentional looking, and how small shifts can help us reclaim our attention.

Whether you work with visitors in museums, guide groups through artworks or simply want to nurture a more spacious way of looking, this conversation offers practical ideas you can apply directly to your facilitation practice (and to your life!).

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on Patreon

Menka is the founder of Just Looking, a global community of people looking at everyday life with slowness and curiosity. She is also the co-author of Your Best Digital Life. Her work invites people to notice more, reflect more and reconnect with both the digital and physical worlds.

Just Looking newsletter

Just Looking’s Instagram

60 Experiments in Looking

Your Best Digital Life

Menka Sanghvi’s website

✨ If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting The Art Engager on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Or pick up a copy of my book, The Art Engager, for step-by-step guidance on creating meaningful, interactive guided experiences https://www.theartengager.com/

Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

In this special episode created in collaboration with NEMO – the Network of European Museum Organisations, I’m sharing voices and ideas from the 2025 NEMO European Museum Conference ‘Who Cares? Museums, Wellbeing and Resilience’ in Horsens, Denmark.

Recorded during the conference itself in the unique setting of the FÆNGSLET Prison Museum, this episode features eight speakers from across Europe and beyond.

Together, we explore how museums are engaging with wellbeing and care – for their communities, their staff, and the wider world.

You’ll hear from museum professionals, researchers and cultural leaders reflecting on what care looks like in practice – from building organisational resilience to creating spaces for recovery, reflection and connection. The episode weaves together their experiences to to show how museums are finding new ways to care for people and communities.

• How museums are rethinking their roles in wellbeing and resilience
• Practical examples of care-centred work in action
• The emotional and organisational challenges of supporting wellbeing
• The importance of caring for the people who care for others

Julia Pagel (Germany) • Vera Carasso (Netherlands) • Elizabeth Merritt (USA) • Inga Surgunte (Latvia) • Sinéad Rice (Ireland) • Yurii Horpynych (Ukraine) • Roberto Casarotto (Italy) • Dr Nuala Morse (UK)

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown. Support on Patreon

• NEMO – Network of European Museum Organisations
• NEMO 2025 Statement on Museums and Wellbeing
• Conference webpage with recordings

✨ If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting The Art Engager on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Or pick up a copy of my book, The Art Engager, for step-by-step guidance on creating meaningful, interactive guided experiences https://www.theartengager.com/

Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

In this episode of The Art Engager, I’m talking with Dr Elizabeth (Zab) Johnson, Executive Director of the Wharton Neuroscience Initiative and a visual neuroscientist whose work explores the intersection of art, perception and leadership.

Zab’s research asks one key question: how does what we see guide our decisions, actions and behaviours? Her work combines neuroscience, visual perception and museum-based learning to show how what we see shapes how we think, communicate and lead.

At Wharton, Zab leads sessions for business executives that bring slow looking and perspective taking together — helping leaders strengthen empathy and communication through shared experiences of looking at art.

We talk about her journey from researching colour and form processing in the brain to designing slow art experiences that build leadership skills. You’ll hear why museums are ideal for practising perspective taking, what happens when groups spend an hour with a single artwork, and how slow looking in dialogue with others fosters deep learning and connection.

We also discuss the neuroscience behind these practices, the ‘no pointing’ rule, and why words like ‘obviously’ can shut down conversation.

This episode offers plenty to think about for anyone interested in how collective looking can enhance empathy, attention and leadership.

The Art Engager is written and presented by Claire Bown. Editing is by Matt Jacobs and Claire Bown. Music by Richard Bown.

✨ If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider supporting The Art Engager on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/TheArtEngager

Or pick up a copy of my book, The Art Engager, for step-by-step guidance on creating meaningful, interactive guided experiences https://www.theartengager.com/

Buy it here on Amazon.com: https://tinyurl.com/buytheartengager

Episode Links

https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/perspective-taking-brain-hack-can-help-make-better-decisions/

Visual Marketing: A Practical Guide to the Science of Branding https://www.routledge.com/Visual-Marketing-A-Practical-Guide-to-the-Science-of-Branding--Retailing/Kahn-Johnson/p/book/9781032731322

Dr Elizabeth (Zab) Johnson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeth-johnson-phd-a3160932/

Wharton Neuroscience website:https://neuro.wharton.upenn.edu/