What happens when your referral program participants are literally trained to find holes in systems? How do you protect your program without making it so complicated that nobody wants to use it?

To explore this, we welcome Mariana Doncel to The Advocacy Channel. Mariana leads B2C product marketing at Hack the Box, a cybersecurity training platform where users learn ethical hacking through hands-on challenges. When your customers spend their days breaking into systems for fun, you learn pretty quickly what actually works for fraud prevention.

In this episode, Mariana and host Will Fraser get into the reality of protecting your referral program from abuse. Spoiler: it's not about building an airtight system with rules for every scenario. Mariana shares the pragmatic approach Hack the Box has taken, focusing on damage control and smart incentive design rather than trying to prevent every possible exploit.

In this episode, Mariana walks us through:

• Why trying to close every possible loophole often backfires by making your program too complex for legitimate users
• The "accept and mitigate" approach: acknowledging that some people will try to game the system while capping your exposure
• How tying rewards to actual monetary actions creates natural fraud deterrence
• Setting per-person limits so even if someone does find a workaround, the damage is contained
• Thinking about fraud prevention as risk analysis rather than absolute protection
• How to balance moving fast with protecting your program from abuse

Mariana also shares how this mindset extends beyond referral programs to everything her marketing team puts out at Hack the Box, where every campaign has to account for users who will look for alternative interpretations.

Connect with Mariana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marianadoncel/

Connect with us:

• Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/
• Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/
• Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com

Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights:

• The Partnership Economy
• The Publisher's Playbook

Want to build a customer advisory board that actually drives business value? Struggling to figure out where to start or how to prove the ROI?

To help, we welcome Cate Vanasse to The Advocacy Channel. Cate leads customer marketing at TalkDesk, where her team's mission is "igniting raving fans, driving growth, and building customers for life."

With extensive experience building and scaling customer advisory boards across multiple companies, Cate shares her practical framework for creating CABs that strengthen relationships, influence revenue, and create real brand advocates.

In this episode, Cate walks us through:

• How to identify the right CAB members by balancing ideal account logos with the right human personalities in the room
• The art of balancing "give vs get" so it doesn't feel transactional
• Why in-person meetings matter for executive CABs versus when virtual works better for technical advisory boards

Cate also shares insights from TalkDesk's CX Innovators Awards program, including how industry recognition has helped customers get promoted and secure internal resources.

Her closing advice? The best customer marketing programs don't start with a spreadsheet. They start with empathy.

Connect with Cate on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catevanasse/

Connect with us:

• Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/
• Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/
• Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com

Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights:

• The Partnership Economy
• The Publisher's Playbook

Want your referral program to succeed?

Start with the foundation first. Make sure your product infrastructure is solid and can handle growth before you launch.

In this episode, we're excited to welcome Ashley Stead, Director, Growth Product at Nesto Group, a leading Canadian tech company building the mortgage ecosystem of the future. With over 15 years of experience spanning product management, UX research, marketing, and operations, Ashley brings a unique full-stack perspective to customer marketing and advocacy initiatives.

In this episode, Ashley and our host Will Fraser dive into what it means to think about advocacy as infrastructure rather than one-off campaigns. Ashley shares her framework for creating product-led advocacy programs that integrate seamlessly into the customer journey.

From understanding the "micro-yeses" approach to breaking down complex customer paths, to navigating build vs. buy decisions and fostering collaboration between marketing and development teams, this conversation is packed with practical insights.

In this episode, you'll discover:

How to map customer journeys and identify the right moments for advocacy messaging without competing with other business priorities.

• The framework for deciding when to build custom solutions versus buying existing platforms, and how to create hybrid approaches.
• Strategies for empowering marketing teams to move quickly while keeping technical infrastructure robust and scalable.
• The importance of breaking down big conversions into micro-yeses and understanding the data behind each step.
• How to use AI tools and prompts to become more full-stack in your marketing role, even without technical resources.

Listen to this episode to hear more about how infrastructure thinking can transform your advocacy programs and help you avoid the common mistakes marketers make with referral programs.

Connect with Ashley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashley-stead/

AI prompt from Ashley: The Advocacy Channel | Season 2 Episode 9 AI Prompt

Connect with us:

• Get more customer marketing insights and strategies at impact.com/blog/
• Connect with host Will on LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/wifraser/
• Have a question? Suggestion? Email us at advocacychannel@impact.com

Loving this show? Explore impact.com's other podcasts packed with insights:

• The Partnership Economy
• The Publisher's Playbook