This is a fun crossover episode with Karl Staib, host of the Systemic Leader podcast and systems consultant through a company of the same name. In this episode, shared across both platforms, we discuss systems thinking and how we have each built and evolved systems to help us navigate work and life.

Mentioned on the Show

• Learn more about Karl and his Systematic Leader framework: https://systematicleader.co/
• Connect with Karl Staib on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlstaib
• Listen to the Systematic Leader podcast on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/systematic-leader/id1535499918

Timestamps

(00:00:00) — People Business x Systematic Leadership podcast crossover: O’Brien McMahon with Karl Staib

(00:02:00) — What is systems thinking? How do you define it?

(00:08:15) — “Leaking”: How do you identify the biggest problem in your process?

(00:12:45) — What are some best practices in creating a customer journey map?

(00:14:27) — Client retention: what systems help keep things fresh for existing clients?

(00:17:49) — How do you handle feedback and resistance to change in organizations?

(00:23:31) — How humans are more motivated by status than we might think

(00:33:14) — How to turn employee appreciation into a system

(00:36:33) — When should something be cut out of a system?

(00:42:19) — Examples of systems that might surprise people

(00:52:54) — Final thoughts and how to contact Karl and Systematic Leader

Shawn Bushway has a PhD in economics and public policy from the Heinz College at Carnegie Mellon University and has spent his career in criminology, where he has been recognized as a Distinguished Scholar for the Division of Corrections and Sentencing and a Fellow of the American Society of Criminology. He has published two books and over 100 peer-reviewed articles in journals.

Mentioned on the Show

• Learn more about the Bushway Opportunity Score: https://www.bushwayopportunityscore.com/
• Connect with Shawn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-d-bushway-91a1494a

Timestamps

(00:00:00) — Shawn Bushway joins O'Brien McMahon on People Business.

(00:03:12) — What’s the origin story for how you got into criminology?

(00:05:41) — As a culture in the US, how have our beliefs around crime and criminals changed over time?

(00:08:49) — Do foreign countries have other sentiments about criminals?

(00:12:49) — What are the misconceptions and what is the reality around recidivism?

(00:26:47) — Which factors should you look for in recidivism?

(00:35:38) — What about white collar crime? Is there a higher risk to hiring someone to a white collar job who has committed a white collar crime?

(00:43:30) — The Bushway Opportunity Score: helping employers make solid decisions in hiring

(00:45:31) — What factors can be considered for offenders in the hiring process?

(00:49:55) — Once these people get hired, are they materially the same as every other employee, or are there differences—maybe positive or negative?

(00:56:12) — Closing thoughts and encouragements

Radhika Dutt draws on 25 years of experience across industries, continents, and sizes of organizations to write, speak, and consult on innovation and change. Her experience has taught her that goal-setting systems often produce the opposite of what they promise: short-termism, performance theater, and cultures that prioritize looking good over doing good work. In this conversation, she offers an alternative.

Mentioned on the Show

• Get Radhika’s free toolkit to help you switch to puzzle-solving in your business: https://www.radicalproduct.com/toolkit/#OHLToolkit
• Connect with Radhika Dutt on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/radhika-dutt
• Learn more about Radhika Dutt on her website: https://rdutt.com/

Timestamps
(00:00:00) - Welcoming Radhika Dutt to People Business

(00:03:02) – What is the history of goal setting?

(00:06:15) – Is the problem OKRs or SMART goals or goal setting in general?

(00:22:02) – Why doesn’t traditional goal-setting work?

(00:24:42) – How do institutional incentives fit into your new framework?

(00:29:16) – If goal setting doesn’t work, what does?

(00:34:12) – How frequently do leaders need to review and work on this new framework?

(00:36:22) – What about goals for individuals? Does goal setting work for people’s individual goals?

(00:37:11) – How does puzzle-solving work in a service-related business?

(00:40:09) – Do traditional metrics have any role in the puzzle-solving framework?

(00:49:39) – How sustainable is using puzzle-solving over traditional goals?

(00:53:51) – Using vision statements in the process of solving puzzles in business

(00:55:08) – What are the drawbacks of using a puzzle-solving approach over traditional goal setting?

(00:57:28) – Get Radhika’s free toolkit to develop the puzzle-solving approach for your business