A bright blue guitar covered in orange koi fish vanished from a museum display … and Swifties immediately knew what it meant.

That distinctive guitar—the one Taylor Swift used to record Speak Now—had been a gift. Hand crafted, by the founders of Taylor Guitars. When she brought it back on stage during her Eras tour, the fans went wild.

In this episode, Bob Taylor and Kurt Listug tell the unlikely story behind one of the world’s most respected acoustic guitar brands—how it grew from a tiny San Diego repair shop doing $30,000/year into a global business with nine-figure revenue. And how it survived every challenge that should’ve ended it: a distributor deal that didn’t add up, a brutal market crash in the disco era, and such slow growth that—five years into the business—the founders could barely pay themselves a salary ($15/week).

It’s a story about serendipity, obsession, and the quiet power of a partnership where each person knows their lane—Bob with relentless craftsmanship, Kurt with the discipline to turn it into a massive business.

Plus: the purple 12-string featured in Prince’s “Raspberry Beret” … the MTV Unplugged boom that boosted the business … and why the founders eventually chose to convert the business to 100% employee ownership.

What you’ll learn:

• The operating principle that changed Taylor’s production: one finished guitar beats 10 half-finished ones
• How to make a slow-growth business survivable (and why Bob saw it as “education”)
• How to recognize a bad distribution deal
• The design innovations that drew musicians to Taylor guitars
• Why Bob got a call from Taylor Swift’s dad when she was 14—and the iconic guitar her fans grew to love
• How the business managed demand shocks during COVID
• Why an ESOP can be a founder’s best “succession plan” decision
• What a great partnership looks like in practice

Timestamps:

(Timecodes are approximate and may shift depending on platform.)

• 00:06:39 – The high school moment: “I didn’t have $175 … so I thought, I’ll just make a guitar.”
• 00:07:14 – The American Dream shop: the hippie setup that became a launchpad
• 00:10:20 – The “baseball bat neck” problem with guitars—and Bob’s happy-accident innovation
• 00:11:59 – Buying the shop for $3,700 … then realizing it didn’t include the name (or phone number)
• 00:22:31 – The sentence that changed everything: “Would you rather have 10 half-done guitars or one done guitar?”
• 00:26:28 – The distributor deal that ended in layoffs: good sell job, bad math, and what they learned
• 00:38:30 – Buying out the third partner: why the business doubled when “the brakes were off”
• 00:59:52 – Before Taylor Swift was Taylor Swift: a phone call from a proud dad, and a promotional concert that almost went unheard
• 01:09:36 – The inflation economics of guitar building

***

Hey—want to be a guest on HIBT?

If you’re building a business, why not get advice from some of the greatest entrepreneurs on Earth?

Every Thursday on the HIBT Advice Line, a previous HIBT guest helps new entrepreneurs work through the challenges they’re facing right now. Advice that’s smart, actionable, and absolutely free.

Just call 1-800-433-1298, leave a message, and you may soon get guidance from someone who started where you did, and went on to build something massive.

So—give us a call. We can’t wait to hear what you’re working on.

***

This episode was produced by Alex Cheng with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Neva Grant with research help from Rommel Wood. Our engineers were Patrick Murray and Maggie Luthar.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Plus, how candor has been a more effective press strategy than talking points for (the literal) Mrs. Meyers.

First we meet Allison in California, seeking marketing ideas for her novel wig designs which aren’t done justice by photos alone. Next, Nick in Idaho wonders whether retail expansion or content development is best to grow his children’s toy and book franchise. And finally, Ben in Virginia considers options like acquiring a nearby company to grow his chandelier cleaning business.

Thank you to the founders of Encelia Hair, Randimals and Chandelier Cleaning VA, for being a part of our show.

If you’d like to be featured on a future Advice Line episode — where Guy and former show guests take questions from early-stage founders — leave us a one-minute message that tells us about your business and a specific question you’d like answered. Send a voice memo to hibt@id.wondery.com or call 1-800-433-1298.

And be sure to listen to the founding story of Mrs. Meyers Clean Day as told by Monica on the show in 2025.

This episode was produced by Kerry Thompson with music by Ramtin Arablouei. It was edited by Andrea Bruce and John Isabella. Our audio engineer was Cena Loffredo.

You can follow HIBT on X & Instagram and sign up for Guy's free newsletter at guyraz.com or on Substack.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Before Gymboree became a cultural icon in the 80s and 90s, it was just one lonely new mom trying to find connection. Joan Barnes started hosting weekly playgroups for parents… and demand exploded. What began as a diversion became a business. Then a franchise. Then a brand everyone seemed to know, with its padded playrooms and parachute games.

From the outside, it looked like a runaway success: hundreds of locations, glowing press coverage, celebrity buzz. But inside, the franchise model was failing. A potential Hasbro rescue vanished overnight. And Joan—while smiling for the world—was breaking under the pressure.

Then came a major pivot that helped turn Gymboree around. The company was going to survive, but Joan realized she might not. She stepped away for good, to fight for her health.

In this episode, Joan talks frankly about building Gymboree, losing control of it, and learning some vital lessons about ambition, balance, and humility.

What You’ll Learn

• The hidden math of franchising: when scale makes you weaker, not stronger
• How—years before social media—Joan used the media as her marketing engine
• The moment Gymboree nearly died—and the brilliant pivot that saved it
• What it feels like to be celebrated publicly while privately falling apart
• Why “more hustle” can be a trap

Timestamps:

(Timecodes are approximate and may shift depending on platform.)

• [08:20] “Lonely and isolated”—The new-mom need that sparked Joan’s first playgroup
• [13:43] The early days: parachute games, circle songs, and connecting with other parents
• [16:59] The first, $3,000 investment, and expanding to new venues.
• [23:08] Learning the hard way: “I didn’t even know what franchise meant.”
• [38:40] Joan discovers her business model has a terrifying Catch-22
• [45:05] A humiliating gut punch: Hasbro calls off a life-saving deal
• [50:15] The pivot to profitability: play centers + clothing stores
• [1:03:00] Success on the outside, collapse on the inside: panic, addiction, treatment
• [1:14:17] After Gymboree: yoga studios, recovery, and redefining success

Hey—want to be a guest on HIBT?

If you’re building a business, why not get advice from some of the greatest entrepreneurs on Earth?

Every Thursday on the HIBT Advice Line, a previous HIBT guest helps new entrepreneurs work through the challenges they’re facing right now. Advice that’s smart, actionable, and absolutely free.

Just call 1-800-433-1298, leave a message, and you may soon get guidance from someone who started where you did, and went on to build something massive.

So—give us a call. We can’t wait to hear what you’re working on.

This episode was produced by Chris Maccini with music composed by Ramtin Arablouei.

It was edited by Neva Grant with research by Rommel Wood.

Our engineers were Jimmy Keeley and Patrick Murray.

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.