Chéri Smith heads up the Alliance for Tribal Clean Energy. She'd been on the podcast in 2022 explaining the Alliance's operation then. She and Ted discuss the change in presidential administrations and its affect on tribes. While the Alliance is 100% supported by philanthropies, purposefully exempt from the volatility of changing administrations, the tribes that the Alliance supports were heavily impacted, with hundreds of millions lost and projects stranded, retarding the development of clean energy on reservations.

Since her last Eco-Logic episode, Chéri had a whole department writing grants and structuring projects. In 2024 that team wrote $800 million worth of applications for clean energy. Fully $490 million was awarded to 49 tribes. "But within four days after the inauguration.. money clawed out bank accounts, literally clawed out." She explains that there were no letters, only a "giant sucking sound." Programs were abruptly cancelled such as EPA's Solar for All program that was helping tribes put modest solar systems on homes, in cases providing power for the first time. Tax credits that provided up to 70% of the cost of solar installations, were eliminated.

There are 575 recognized tribes in America and another 100+ that are not recognized. Fully 229 tribes are Alaskan native villages. Chéri is of My'kyma descent, a tribe from Northern Maine and the Canadian Maritimes. She makes clear how profound the political changes have been to the tribes. They had begun to develop projects spurred by government funds and backed by third-party finance despite tribes generally being "allergic to debt."

The cancellation of many projects, and the loss of tax credits and other support programs, has eroded trust that had been building... the trust necessary to develop large-scale projects that can boost economic development on tribal lands. Chéri explains the impact to the Hopi after the closure of the coal-fired Navajo Generating Station. It had provided lease fees to the Hopi, creating a huge hole of lost revenues and lost jobs. A billion-dollar, utility-scale, 400 MW solar project to serve wholesale markets, was going to fill this gap and provide a pathway to prosperity going forward.

The conversation shifts to how the Alliance has adapted. The Alliance created the Indigenous Power and Light Fund in 2024 with a $100 million goal. So far it has raised $38 million from three primary philanthropists, money that is now being used for grants and loans to spur renewable energy projects, providing just-in-time capital, filling funding gaps, forming capital stacks where private markets won't. The Alliance is prioritizing clean energy projects that provide energy access, build climate resilience, lessen reliance on fossil fuels, and provide resources for climate and fire disasters.

Drawing inspiration from the tribes it serves, Chéri reports that the Alliance has grown despite discouraging federal policies. In the past two years, the Alliance staff has nearly tripled and the Alliance has added highly experienced professionals to its team and capabilities to better serve ~180 tribes. The Alliance has also formed the Tribal Energy Leadership Fellowship... an initiative to train tribal leaders in partnership with Haskell Indian Nations University, Harvard, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Ben Lochtenberg came to solar for good reason: He sees solar as an elegant energy solution, one that will keep on giving for years. His mission as the Founder and Managing Director of Xero Solar is to tap solar as a "perpetual" energy source and to promote a transition to a more resilient world. Xero is working to create a brighter future for all, through residential solar services as well as programs for underserved youth, neurodiverse children, as well as faith-based and spiritual communities.

Born in Australia, Ben spent his youth in England before his family migrated to America. His career led him to specialize in material science -- physics and chemistry -- working for big corporations on electronics, semiconductors, printed circuit boards, and solar cell fabrication. At the age of 48 he decided to form his own business. Undaunted by statistics that show that nine out of ten startups fail, Ben dug into solar, determined to succeed. He's still paranoid, and sites an author who wrote that "only the paranoid survive." The key is to always be on the look-out for what can go wrong and to plan for it.

Ted asks Ben about "the solar-coaster"... a term that Ben dismisses strongly: "I hate that term. It suggests that one has no control." Ted digs in given the recent and major blow to residential installations: "What about the loss of the residential investment tax credit?" Ben points to two factors: Fifteen years ago, when he started Xero, it cost twice as much to install as it does today, and that value in avoided utility costs then was half or less than it is today. His view is clear that we don't need tax credits, that solar is still a good deal without tax credits and utility incentives.

Ben discusses his business philosophy and operations. He believes in fair prices for suppliers, employees, and for customers. Too often customers are focused on the first cost of solar, rather than its long-term savings. Ben notes that choosing the lowest cost solar company may be the most expensive decision one ever makes. Charging a fair price gives Xero the ability to provide strong levels of customer service and support for the lifetime of the systems installed. Xero spends little on marketing its services. The best advocates are customers pleased with the services they receive, says Ben.

Ben wants Xero to have a potent impact... "to help people we touch." This starts with employees. His staff are grateful of his priorities... nurturing marriages, strong families, celebrating babies and home-buying. Leading his staff, Ben volunteers and teaches them about the fulfillment attained by giving. His mother taught him that this world is made up of takers and givers. The takers will never be satisfied, they always want more. "Those that give are blessed with so much more... givers have full hearts."

The conversation includes a discussion of the future integration of our cars with our homes. Ben has been tracking VGI, vehicle grid integration, for years. "It's a great idea as our cars sit idle 95% of the time." While not sure of its timing -- "it seems like it's been the technology of tomorrow for a long time" -- his passion for efficient utilization of resources - in this case batteries -- causes him to be excited about VGI, flattening utility load profiles and the duck curve, and optimizing the grid to drive down power costs for us all. Xero is future proofing its solar projects for the VGI future.

According to David Kilzer, the fusion of artificial intelligence (AI) and robotics is the biggest leap for mankind since fire! David has seen dramatic evolution in automation in his 50-year career... influenced by the rise of personal computers, the internet, smart phones, and now AI. He believes that AI-power humanoid robots are a huge game changer, and one that will increase the quality of life for us all.

Imagine waking in the morning and having your coffee made to perfectly suit your taste. Imagine a humanoid robot playing chess with grandpa, or teaching the kids algebra, or folding the laundry or mowing the lawn or blending margaritas! The applications for robots are widespread... from household functions to nursing homes to factories, schools, medicine, and more. They can deliver vaccines in quarantine zones... and can readily access all the world's information. David highlights the future of open-sourced robots... whereby a robot in Japan learns to make sushi rolls, and this skill is uploaded to the cloud and then available for robots on the same platform worldwide. We may all have robots serving us, loaded up with apps for various tasks!

David's company, Strategic Transformation Advisors helps industries tap the great potentials for automation. He is currently working on a major facility in Oregon, where three kinds of robots will be at work... none requiring any space conditioning at all. Robots can work 24*7; they need no breaks or benefits. They are tireless and can do heavy lifting, and can boost productivity, proficiency, and safety. And as more and more automation is developed, costs will fall... only begetting more automation with greater functionality.

There will be adjustments in the transition toward greater and greater automation. Job losses are top of mind, notes David. Goldman Sachs reports that 6 - 7% of the American workforce has already been displaced by AI. Amazon laid off 14,000 workers last year and expects to lay off 30,000 by the end of this year. The implications for jobs are huge... with automation replacing not just manual tasks... but all manner of technical services such as coding, paralegal reviews, and engineering.

The conversation shifts into income tax losses as workers are replaced with machines. David imagines that mechanisms will be needed to address this loss. Should AI be taxed? Should robot leases be taxed? While David offers no solutions, he suggests that clever new means of developing revenues to support government functions may well be needed. He points to Norway's sovereign wealth fund that provides public benefit from oil and gas resources as a model mechanism. How can the abundance that will be created by AI and humanoid robotics be shared for the benefit of all?

The conversation ends with David's bold predictions: AI-power robotics will be prevalent in industry this decade, and will likely be ubiquitous in homes in the 2030s. The pace of automation, and highly intelligent automation, is nothing short of fantastic.