In this episode, I sit down with Jay Clouse, founder of Creator Science and one of the top thinkers in the creator economy, to talk about how to build sustainable memberships, price high-ticket offers, and stay ahead of AI disruption.

We dig into Jay’s insights from 250+ creator interviews, the future of online courses, and how group coaching programs quietly outperform larger audiences.

Jay shares the onboarding system behind his high-retention membership, how he scaled his Lab community, and why trust, not attention, is the metric that matters most in 2024.

If you want to grow a stable, high-leverage creator business, this is a masterclass.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:20 Why AI is going to disrupt course creators
03:42 Hyper-personalized learning vs static curriculum
07:11 What to build next if courses are dying
10:47 Rethinking memberships and peer-to-peer communities
17:21 Pricing for renewal instead of first-year sales
22:04 Why he removed the member cap
25:30 Objective criteria for curating communities
27:00 Who earns the most per follower
30:39 Done-for-you vs group coaching vs DIY
34:32 Building sticky products that actually retain
39:04 The onboarding system behind Jay’s community
46:57 Keeping members engaged after 6 months
50:54 Building habit loops and true community
54:20 Why in-person events are now a priority
58:03 Being authentic when you’re always “on”
01:00:53 Don’t optimize for attention—optimize for trust
01:02:28 Where to follow Jay

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com

Follow Jay:
Website: https://www.creatorscience.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jayclouse
X: https://twitter.com/jayclouse
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jay
Podcast: https://www.creatorscience.com/podcast

Featured in this episode:
Creator Science: https://www.creatorscience.com
The Lab: https://join.creatorscience.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com

In this episode, I sit down with Jefferson Fisher—trial lawyer, bestselling author, and communication expert with over 12 million followers—to map out a clear, balanced path to $10 million a year in revenue.

We dive into Jefferson’s wide range of business assets including his podcast, newsletter, book, speaking, AI product, and fast-growing membership.

Then we break down exactly what to prioritize, how to build the right team, and what he needs to stop doing to scale without burning out.

Whether you’re a fast-growing creator or a business owner looking for leverage and balance, this is a blueprint.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:08 Jefferson’s growth from zero to 6M Instagram followers
03:22 Mapping all his revenue channels
06:08 His speaking fees, membership size, and podcast numbers
09:28 Balancing business growth with family time
13:24 The hidden cost of daily content creation
18:25 How batching could change Jefferson’s life
22:32 The power of speaking as leverage
25:31 Planning for $10M while staying present at home
30:34 The surprising value of Jefferson’s DMs
36:04 Why the membership is the biggest opportunity
42:17 Automating conversions with his newsletter
47:44 Building a team to scale
53:19 The role Jefferson should hire next
57:08 Balancing brand vision with freedom
01:04:11 Why we’re pausing the course idea (for now)
01:11:03 Wrapping with Jefferson’s biggest takeaways

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com

Follow Jefferson:
Website: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher
X: https://twitter.com/jefferson_fishr
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@jeffersonfisher
The Next Conversation (book): https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/book

Featured in this episode:
The Next Conversation (book): https://www.thenextconversation.com
Jefferson Fisher: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com
Jefferson’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jefferson_fisher
Civility (his company): https://www.jeffersonfisher.com
Kit: https://www.kit.com

In this episode, I sit down with Tim Grahl to map out how he broke through a 3-year business plateau and scaled his education company from $695K to over $2M.

We unpack how Tim made the leap by completely rebuilding his business model, delivering better outcomes for students, and building a variable-cost team that scales with revenue.

He also shares how he ran 600+ customer interviews, built a coaching program around accountability, and used YouTube and SparkLoop to drive steady growth.

If you’re stuck at a growth ceiling, this episode is a blueprint for getting unstuck.

Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction
01:13 Breaking through the $1M ceiling
03:12 Revenue history from 2021 to 2024
06:37 The wake-up call promotion
08:00 600 customer interviews in 18 months
12:24 The mindset shift that changed everything
13:03 Why Tim rebuilt the entire business model
17:55 Forecasts vs. goals
20:36 Profit margin and personal runway
23:15 Why most courses don’t deliver transformation
25:18 How Story Grid’s coaching model works
30:08 Team structure and mentor compensation
34:10 Pricing strategy and program design
35:18 Using SparkLoop and YouTube to grow leads
38:02 Tim’s content process and YouTube habits
43:07 The emotional dip before the breakthrough
47:18 Burnout, self-doubt, and freight train focus
51:22 Why building a team unlocked freedom
57:11 Hiring mindset and building lean
01:00:12 The path from 2M to 5M and beyond
01:03:40 The power of product-market fit

If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave a review. I read every single one.

Learn more about the podcast: https://nathanbarry.com/show

Follow Nathan:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nathanbarry
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nathanbarry
X: https://twitter.com/nathanbarry
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@thenathanbarryshow
Website: https://nathanbarry.com

Follow Tim:
Website: https://www.storygrid.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@storygrid
X: https://x.com/storygrid
Tim’s latest book: https://www.storygrid.com/product/the-shithead

Featured in this episode:
Story Grid: https://www.storygrid.com
The Shithead (book): https://www.storygrid.com/product/the-shithead
SparkLoop: https://www.sparkloop.app
Kit: https://www.kit.com