What should a spiritual space make you feel?

This week, I’m joined by the incredible Rev. Ryan Lindsay Arrendell, the founder and pastor of Salt and Light Ministries DC to think about what it means to build and find religious + spiritual spaces that nourish.

Rev Ryan is doing something I find so awe-inspiring: building the kind of church she wants to exist. At Salt and Light, that means a space organized around radical acceptance, where addiction, mental illness, incarceration, abortion, sexuality, or any of the experiences we’re often taught to carry shame around do not make you any less loved by God or any less lovable.

And our conversation goes everywhere. We talk about building a church as a Black queer woman, hearing from God and following divine intuition, finding the altar wherever you are, and Rev’s experience observing Ramadan and attending Jummah. We also get into what to look for when finding a spiritual community: transparency. You shouldn’t have to guess whether all of you will be welcomed somewhere.

Rev. Ryan helped me think about church beyond the building, worship beyond Sunday morning, and how to find and build spiritual spaces that actually nourish us.

Follow + Support Salt and Light:

Instagram: @SaltandLightDC

Website: tinyurl.com/saltlightdc

Rev. Ryan Lindsay Arrendell is a preacher, writer, Emmy Award-winning journalist, and graduate of Yale Divinity School. She is the founder and pastor of Salt and Light Ministries in Washington, DC. Salt and Light currently gathers for monthly worship and community programming, and will celebrate its one-year anniversary on November 1.

Mayor Mamdani was publicly disinvited from 9/11 memorial services, and his dad wrote a book that helps us understand why.

We’re thinking about a framework that has shaped how scholars think about Islam, terrorism, and American politics for more than twenty years: Mahmood Mamdani’s Good Muslim, Bad Muslim. Mamdani argues that the distinction between “good” and “bad” Muslims doesn’t actually have much to do with religion, despite terrorism so often being framed as an outcome of religious belief. Instead, the goalpost moves according to Muslims’ relationship to U.S. and Western political interests, both domestically and abroad.

And, of course, there’s something pretty incredible about revisiting that argument now, as Mamdani’s own son, Zohran Mamdani, is navigating what it means to be a Muslim elected official who remains unapologetic about his Muslim identity while being critical of the political establishment.

We get into the post-9/11 origins of the “good Muslim/bad Muslim” framework, Juliane Hammer’s work on gendered Islamophobia, and then go further back to Malcolm X to think about another historical moment when someone who critiqued American politics, domestically and abroad, was also rendered a “bad Muslim.”

Both Mamdanis help us see that who gets rendered a “bad Muslim” tells us much less about Islam than it tells us about power, politics, and who is allowed to critique the United States.

Chapters

00:00 — Teaser: Why Mamdani Will Always Be a “Bad Muslim”

00:38 — Where I’m Finding Grounding: Being Back Home

02:52 — Who Is a Good Muslim? Who Is a Bad Muslim?

03:59 — Mamdani’s Dad Told Us This 20 Years Ago

07:03 — Who Gets to Be a “Good Muslim”?

10:55 — Gendered Islamophobia

15:05 — The First “Bad Muslim” People’s Mayor of NYC: Malcolm X

21:20 — Rahma Duwaji + the Moving Goalpost of the “Good Muslim”

24:58 — Where I’m Looking for Grounding Right Now

References:

Mamdani, Mahmood. Good Muslim, Bad Muslim: America, the Cold War, and the Roots of Terror. New York: Pantheon Books, 2004.

Hammer, Juliane. “Center Stage: Gendered Islamophobia and Muslim Women.” In Islamophobia in America: The Anatomy of Intolerance, edited by Carl W. Ernst, 107–144. New York: Palgrave Macmillan, 2013.

Said, Edward W. Orientalism. New York: Pantheon Books, 1978.

Wallace, Mike, and Louis E. Lomax. The Hate That Hate Produced. WNTA-TV, 1959.

[Islamophobia, Islam in America, Muslims in America, Zohran Mamdani, Malcolm X, good Muslim bad Muslim, Mahmood Mamdani, religion and politics, gendered Islamophobia, Black Muslims, Nation of Islam, and post-9/11 Islam]

What do people do when they don’t agree with scripture? Especially when a sacred text, or the way it has been interpreted, doesn’t align with their own sense of justice, equality, or human flourishing?

This week, I’m taking you into my Intro to the Study of Islam classroom to think about that question. I start with an exercise I give my students using two passages about slavery, one from the New Testament and one from the Quran, and the little “gotcha” moment that happens when I ask them to imagine building a society based on those texts. Because the point is to get them to see that sacred texts don’t simply tell people what to do. People give sacred texts meaning.

From there, we get into Aysha Hidayatullah’s Feminist Edges of the Qur’an and some of the strategies Muslim feminist theologians have used when interpretations of the Quran don’t align with their commitments to gender justice, including historical contextualization, holistic reading, and the Tawhidic paradigm.

Ultimately, I’m thinking about something I really want my students to leave my classes understanding: critique, disagreement, struggle, and debate are not necessarily departures from religious traditions. They are part of how religious traditions are made, sustained, and transformed.

And maybe disagreeing with scripture is a much more religious thing to do than we think.

Chapters:

00:00 — Teaser: What Do You Do When You Disagree With Scripture?

01:55 — Finding Grounding: Taking Things One Day at a Time

03:40 — The Classroom Exercise: What Would You Do With These Verses?

06:04 — Disagreement Is Part of Religious Tradition

10:50 — Feminist Edges of the Qur’an

14:16 — Strategy #1: Is the Past the Past?

19:14 — Strategy #2: Sacred Texts Have Contradictions

20:25 — Strategy #3: Can Humans Be Gods?

References

Talal Asad, “The Idea of an Anthropology of Islam,” Qui Parle 17 no .2 (2009): 1-30.

Aysha Hidayatullah, Feminist Edges of the Qur’an. New York: Oxford University Press, 2014.

Kathryn Lofton, “Religion,” in Critical Terms for Religious Studies, edited by Sarah Hammerschlag (University of Chicago Press, 2025), 349-365.

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[religion, scripture, sacred texts, Bible, Quran, Islam, Christianity, religious studies, Quran interpretation, Biblical interpretation, disagreeing with scripture]