X Marks the Statute - Treasure Law with USN LCDR JAG Jordan Foley - PIMM115

Sometimes you just have to take a break from personal injury law and talk about treasure hunting. In this episode, we interview Lieutenant Commander and Navy JAG, Jordan Foley about maritime treasure law. Why? Because I didn’t know anything about it and wanted to hit “record” while I learned. During this conversation, we take a “deep dive” into some of the misconceptions surrounding treasure law and some of the challenging legal arguments that come up during international treasure disputes. Visit Jordan online here: https://www.usni.org/people/jordan-foley. See all episodes or subscribe to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute here: https://optimizemyfirm.com/podcasts/. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eQ0BZ0M1V4 Transcript: Lindsey: Welcome to the Personal Injury Marketing Minute, where we quickly cover the hot topics in the legal marketing world. I'm your host, Lindsey Busfield. Well, I should amend my opening spiel. We usually cover the hot topics in the legal marketing world, but sometimes we're just going to talk about whatever I want to. I recently taught a CLE at the Maryland State Bar Association, and while I was there, I met Lieutenant Commander in Navy JAG, Jordan Foley. While he currently serves as the Department of Defense Fellow to Senator Mazie K. Hirono in Hawaii, he has a special background in naval warfare and a deep understanding of maritime treasure law. Knowing absolutely nothing about this myself, I wanted to take the opportunity to learn more about treasure law and invite you listeners to join me on this educational journey. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jordan. JJ Foley: Absolutely. Thanks, Lindsey, for having me, and it was great meeting you in Ocean City, and I was glad we could talk a little A little bit. Lindsey: And as I like to say, nerd out about treasure law. So that was fun. I mean, who doesn't love treasure law as kids? You know, we are taught to play pirates and you steal the treasure. My kids do this on their play set. You know, it's just kind of built into your childhood and development as a natural curiosity. So tell us a bit about your background and how you got involved in treasure law. JJ Foley: Absolutely. I'll actually start with saying knowing more about treasure law takes some of the romance out of it, which we'll get into later. But it is a fun topic. But so, you know, as you stated, I'm an active duty Navy judge advocate. I started off my naval career as a submarine officer. So I got ship driving experience and deployment experience there. And they got selected for a Navy program where they sent me to law school and I became a Navy JAG through that. So I have a bit of a mix. I'm about 15 years into my career and half of it was spent on submarines and now about half of it as a judge advocate. And a lot of what I've focused on over the years has been. Naval warfare and legal analysis. So whether that is applying law to sea to board deploy missions, or sometimes weapons reviews, as I was doing at the Pentagon most recently before I joined Senator Verona's office as a defense fellow, a lot of it's been bridging the gap between my naval warfare experience and the legal and policy world. Lindsey: And a lot of this comes with your understanding of international law, treaties, and working with our partners and allies, and sometimes even teaching and providing legal support for our partners and allies. So I've had this broad experience, and as one does in the beautiful profession of naval law and such, you find your interest areas, and mine became very quickly, for a lot of reasons you mentioned, treasure law, because it's cool and it's fun, and it's almost a bit of a hobby for me, too. But in the industry, in the private sector, it is an area that you have some specialized attorneys. He's in maritime and admiralty, and I like to see myself as maybe extra specialized with admiralty and maritime law, as focused in the Navy, but it doesn't stop me from nerding out, as we said, about things like treasure law. So let's start with kind of a broad focus here. What exactly is maritime treasure law, and how does it differ from other types of maritime or property law? JJ Foley: So interestingly enough, it specifically deals with ownership, salvage rights, protection of valuables covered from shipwrecks, and submerged cultural heritage. So it's unlike broader maritime law. That's going to cover your shipping, your navigation, commerce. Treasure law focuses on the intersection of property rights, historic preservation, and salvage operations. So you actually find an interesting niche here, and it's very complex in a lot of ways. So for international lawyers out there, it's great. For a hypothetical question on... Law school exam, I'd absolutely throw one on there if I was teaching international law. But with treasurer laws, involves just complex international treaties and competing claims from governments, private salvers, and descendants of ...