Every hero needs a quest. Whether the stakes are saving the world, killing the monster, or rescuing a princess, the best stories throw our heroes into adversity, challenging them and making them become better versions of themselves before they’re worthy and powerful enough to take on their next adventure (whether that’s an exam or a fire-breathing dragon). Watching characters get stronger is one of the best parts, but just how do you measure their leveling up?

LitRPG and Progression Fantasy novels are taking the world of genre readers by storm. It’s not just fantasy and science fiction, it’s the thrill of leveling up, and following stats, character, and power growth. Enter John and Shami Stovall, who join us today to help dial in the genre tropes, write characters that punch above their weight class (literally), and talk about the intricacies of worldbuilding and plot development in these niche genres that have such a huge appeal to so many readers.

In Part Two, We Discuss:

• Author inspirations and getting started in LitRPG and DungeonCore

• Book recommendations

• Genre-locked readers

• Leveling up and tiers of power

• Might Equals Right, vs Right Equals Might

• Strength and distinct elements in traditional vs progression fantasy

• Justice, self-insert fantasy, and expectations for character strength

Resources and Guest Links:

• Shami’s Site: https://sastovallauthor.com/

• John’s Site: https://john-stovall-author.com/

A Few Book Recommendations:

• Cradle, by Will Wight: https://www.willwight.com/cradle.html

• The Land, by Aleron King: https://www.litrpg.com/alerons-books

• Divine Dungeon series, by Dakota Krout: https://www.mountaindalepress.store/collections/all-divine-dungeon

John and Shami are a power couple in more ways than one, and we loved talking with them! We’re so grateful they carved some time out of their writing schedules to join us and talk powering up, monster fights, and breaking down the tricky tropes and subgenres in LitRPG.

Host Links:

• H.Y. Gregor: https://hygregor.com/

• David Shadoin: https://www.davidshadoin.com/

Credits: (all assets licensed through the sites listed)

• Intro: Music- Cinematic Epic Trailer by PaulYudin on Pixabay

• Animation and Image- From Vecteezy user- kazim hussian; from pixabay users-davidfoxx, DavidGallie, olenchic, stefaniejockschat, AiVreaSaStii, RuneSnow, duyen-nguyen, EnchantedStudios,

• Outro: Music- Good Night by FASSounds on Pixabay

• Animation and Image- From Vecteezy user-onlydesignz; from pixabay users-olenchic, Placidplace, Evgeniy_Z, Dantegrafico, Shayea_Kim

Every hero needs a quest. Whether the stakes are saving the world, killing the monster, or rescuing a princess, the best stories throw our heroes into adversity, challenging them and making them become better versions of themselves before they’re worthy and powerful enough to take on their next adventure (whether that’s an exam or a fire-breathing dragon). Watching characters get stronger is one of the best parts, but just how do you measure their leveling up?

LitRPG and Progression Fantasy novels are taking the world of genre readers by storm. It’s not just fantasy and science fiction, it’s the thrill of leveling up, and following stats, character, and power growth. Enter John and Shami Stovall, who join us today to help dial in the genre tropes, write characters that punch above their weight class (literally), and talk about the intricacies of worldbuilding and plot development in these niche genres that have such a huge appeal to so many readers.

In Part One, We Discuss:

• LitRPG vs Progression Fantasy

• Subgenres and tropes in LitRPG

• Incorporating stats and numbers seamlessly into stories

• The allure of weak-to-strong power progression

• The nuance of defining LitRPG genres and subgenres

• Progression fantasy origins and John and Shami’s inspirations for their series

Resources and Guest Links:

• Shami’s Site: https://sastovallauthor.com/

• John’s Site: https://john-stovall-author.com/

John and Shami are a power couple in more ways than one, and we loved talking with them! We’re so grateful they carved some time out of their writing schedules to join us and talk powering up, monster fights, and breaking down the tricky tropes and subgenres in LitRPG.

Host Links:

• H.Y. Gregor: https://hygregor.com/

• David Shadoin: https://www.davidshadoin.com/

Credits: (all assets licensed through the sites listed)

• Intro: Music- Cinematic Epic Trailer by PaulYudin on Pixabay

• Animation and Image- From Vecteezy user- kazim hussian; from pixabay users-davidfoxx, DavidGallie, olenchic, stefaniejockschat, AiVreaSaStii, RuneSnow, duyen-nguyen, EnchantedStudios,

• Outro: Music- Good Night by FASSounds on Pixabay

• Animation and Image- From Vecteezy user-onlydesignz; from pixabay users-olenchic, Placidplace, Evgeniy_Z, Dantegrafico, Shayea_Kim

This episode previously aired on Book Career Network.

Magic systems are the foundation of fantasy fiction. By design, removing magic from a core fantasy story means the world and the plot fall apart. From elemental manipulation, runes, wand work, and bending light into physical form, we’ve seen countless magic systems and spellcasters over centuries of fiction. As authors, how do we make our magic unique, believable, and captivating?

Enter Clark Rowenson, aka the Magic Engineer. Clark turned his background in the sciences to creating a practical, analytical system. His methods break down magic systems, design new ones, and strengthen existing ones.

Author of “The Magic Systems Blueprint: A Fiction Writer’s Guide to Building Magic Systems” and “Restrictions May Apply: Building Limits for Your Magic System”, Clark is an industry leader in magic systems. In addition to a wealth of free resources on his website, and his YouTube channel The Magic Engineer, Clark also offers one-on-one consultation services.

In Part Two, We’ll Discuss:

• H.Y. and Shady geeking out over Brent Weeks’ Lightbringer series

• Starting with a magic system vs starting with characters or other story elements

• “Seed crystals”: single points of reference and inspiration for magic and world development, and how to narrow down your starting points

• An Uninvited Guest

• Our favorite immersive world details

• The Magic System Blueprint: how to break down and analyze your own systems

• • Hard vs. soft and rational vs irrational magic systems

  • Magic transference, prevalence, source, and flux

  • Naturalness, ease of use, reliability, and consistency

  • Use of perspective to view different aspects of magic

Resources and Guest Links:

• https://crrowenson.com/

• https://www.patreon.com/crrowenson

• The Magic Engineer on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw4TcDjakQUUFyGXTm7ZF1Q

Join us in thanking Clark!

We met Clark through the writing conference circuit, and he’s a great friend, writer, teacher, and all-around person. Magic systems are so nuanced and exciting, and Clark was on our short-list for Worlds Asunder while the podcast was in its pre-recording phase. We hope everyone has enjoyed this episode as much as we enjoyed recording it.

Host Links:

• H.Y. Gregor: https://hygregor.com/

• David Shadoin: https://www.davidshadoin.com/

Credits: (all assets licensed through the sites listed)

• Intro: Music- Cinematic Epic Trailer by PaulYudin on Pixabay

• Animation and Image- From Vecteezy user- kazim hussian; from pixabay users-davidfoxx, DavidGallie, olenchic, stefaniejockschat, AiVreaSaStii, RuneSnow, duyen-nguyen, EnchantedStudios,

• Outro: Music- Good Night by FASSounds on Pixabay

• Animation and Image- From Vecteezy user-onlydesignz; from pixabay users-olenchic, Placidplace, Evgeniy_Z, Dantegrafico, Shayea_Kim,