Emily Dickinson and Charles Darwin both saw nature as alive with mystery – and treated wonder as a way of knowing. Literary scholar and science historian Renee Bergland, author of "Natural Magic," is our guide to the forgotten kinship between the reclusive poet and the celebrated naturalist.

Dickinson and Darwin never met, but they had at least one close friend in common. Both were both fascinated by fossils. Both wandered the woods and swamps near their homes, studying insects and documenting rare plants. They shared a vision of the interconnectedness of all life. We know that Dickinson, with her background in botany, geology, astronomy and chemistry, was enthralled by Darwin’s evolutionary theory. And it certainly seems possible that Darwin, with his degree in theology and his lifelong love of poetry and literature, might have admired the American poet whose close observations and delicate perceptions echoed his own.

Bergland’s dual biography, just out in paper, is vivid, sparkling intellectual history – a window onto a time when scientific thinking still embraced emotion and wonder as modes of perception. Could the belief in “natural magic” that infused Dickinson’s and Darwin’s ideas restore our own faith in a universe alive with meaning? Our conversation about the poet who studied natural history and the naturalist who loved poetry suggests a way forward – by reclaiming their shared ecological wonder.

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• Now out in paperback: "Natural Magic: Emily Dickinson, Charles Darwin, and the Dawn of Modern Science"
• Previous books from Renee Bergland: "Maria Mitchell and the Sexing of Science: An Astronomer Among the American Romantics" and "The National Uncanny: Indian Ghosts and American Subjects"

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0:00 — Meeting Renee Bergland

9:00 — What Is Natural Magic?

20:00 — Beauty, Truth, and Evolution

34:00 — Hope and the Garden of Change

What if dying is not an ending, but a moment of radical clarity? In his new novel "Vigil," George Saunders conjures a strange and often comic world of bickering angels visiting a dying, deeply flawed man—debating and waiting to see whether he can face the truth about himself before it’s too late.

In this conversation, Steve Paulson talks with Saunders about the evolution of his ideas about death and the possibility of an afterlife. Dying, he says, may be “the ultimate experience of wonder,” and he believes ghost stories can open powerful imaginative spaces for novelists. Saunders reflects on his own Buddhist practice as he considers these life-and-death questions, and he tells us why he thinks fiction is uniquely suited to grappling with complex moral issues and why Tolstoy and Chekhov are his personal sources of inspiration.

Saunders is the author of such celebrated books as “Tenth of December,” “Pastoralia,” and the Booker Prize-winning “Lincoln in the Bardo.” His nonfiction book about the great Russian writers is “A Swim in a Pond in the Rain.”

This interview was recorded at the Central Library in downtown Madison shortly before Saunders spoke at the Wisconsin Book Festival.

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• To the Best of Our Knowledge — On his short story collection “Tenth of December.
• To the Best of Our Knowledge: Reflecting on “Lincoln in the Bardo.”
• Substack Story Club with George Saunders

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00:00:00 Introduction and Reading from Vigil

00:07:50 The Plane Crash and Death Obsession

00:15:00 The Writing Process and Wonder

00:24:30 Moral Accountability in Fiction

00:32:20 Chekhov, Succession, and Accuracy

00:40:00 Kindness, Criticism, and Final Thoughts

How do you deal with the emotional toll of living in a time of dissolution? Social scientists use the term "polycrisis" to describe the kind of cascading, overlapping failures that can lead to systemic collapse, and it’s hard not to see the symptoms of a dying world order in events unfolding around us. But maybe what we’re witnessing is actually grounds for hope. In a forthcoming book "The Beginning Comes After the End," writer and activist Rebecca Solnit makes the case that something is dying, all right — because something better is being born. A rising worldview that embraces antiracism, feminism, environmental thinking, Indigenous and non-Western ideas, and a vision of a more interconnected, compassionate world.

Solnit is an engaged writer and intellectual in the tradition of Barbara Ehrenreich, Susan Sontag and George Orwell. Her new book picks up where her earlier bestseller “Hope in the Dark” left off — with an argument against despair and historical amnesia. In this conversation, we explore the extraordinary scale of progressive social, political, scientific and cultural change over the past century, the roots of Solnit’s stance of “pragmatic, embodied hope,” her thoughts on “moral wonder, “ and her years in San Francisco’s underground punk rock scene. She also tells us what she’d put in our own wonder cabinet: an AIDS Memorial Quilt square sewn by Rosa Parks.

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• To The Best Of Our Knowledge — Tending a wartime garden: what Orwell’s fascination with roses tells us about the human need for beauty
• Rebecca Solnit’s newsletter
• Pre-order “The Beginning Comes After the End," due out March 3, 2026.

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00:00:00 Introduction

00:04:00 A Land Back Ceremony

00:08:05 Progress in Disguise

00:18:35 Hope and Interconnection

00:29:45 Defiant Hope

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Wonder Cabinet is hosted by Anne Strainchamps and Steve Paulson.

Find out more about the show at wondercabinetproductions.com, where you can subscribe to the podcast and our newsletter.