Why Middle Market Producers Can No Longer Ignore Captives with Warren Cleveland

In this episode of Power Producers Podcast, David Carothers is joined by Warren Cleveland from Captive Coalition for a wide ranging conversation on specialization, creativity, and why producers must narrow their focus to survive in the middle market. Building off recent discussions around parametrics and alternative risk strategies, they explain how captives, benefits captives, and disciplined education can prevent producers from losing high value clients. The episode centers on asking better questions, using the right partners, and positioning captives as a long term strategic tool rather than a last minute reaction. Key points: Why Specialization Beats Generalization David and Warren both stress that producers trying to write everything will struggle. They recommend limiting focus to three core classes of business and closely related peripheral industries. Deep operational knowledge creates credibility, sharper discovery, and better risk solutions that generalists simply cannot match. Creativity Comes From Asking Better Questions The conversation ties parametrics and captives together through one core idea. Partners can build solutions around clients, but only if producers identify the right risks. That requires curiosity, comfort with asking questions, and a willingness to look beyond traditional coverage conversations. Phone a Friend Instead of Losing the Account Warren emphasizes that producers do not need to be captive experts to win. They need to know when to call for help. He shares real examples of agents saving accounts by reaching out early, using talking points, and letting specialists support client conversations before competitors step in. Captives Reward Performance in a True Meritocracy David frames captives as one of the purest merit based systems in insurance. Well performing accounts can retain underwriting profit instead of giving it away. He argues there is no excuse for missing captive conversations when clients consistently complain about paying premiums without seeing returns. Benefits Captives Are the Next Frontier Warren outlines why benefits captives paired with self funding can outperform traditional approaches. With better data, wellness programs, and accountability, employers can finally align incentives and participate in underwriting profit rather than subsidizing poor performers. Education Is the Real Differentiator Captive Coalition positions education as the core offering. From webinars to one on one coaching and ready to use client materials, the goal is to make producers comfortable having the conversation. Warren stresses that missing these discussions often comes from fear and lack of knowledge, not lack of opportunity. Captives as a Long Term Retention Strategy Instead of selling captives reactively, both speakers encourage preparing clients years in advance. Building a three to five year roadmap keeps clients engaged, reduces churn, and eliminates surprise competition. Once clients buy into a long term plan, price driven defections become far less likely. Using Tools You Already Have David closes by reminding producers that captives are simply another tool. Losing accounts because a tool was never used is more frustrating than losing on price. The message is clear. Learn the tools, use the partners available, and stop leaving opportunities on the table. Connect with: David Carothers LinkedIn Warren Cleveland LinkedIn Kyle Houck LinkedIn Visit Websites: Power Producer Base Camp Captive Coalition Killing Commercial Crushing Content Power Producers Podcast Policytee The Dirty 130 The Extra 2 Minutes