What happens when you leave a cult—but the cult is still running a program in your mind?

In this episode, Mark Vicente sits down with author and trauma educator Richard Grannon to explore the long tail of coercive control. They talk about the psychological residue that lingers after you’ve exited—whether it’s from a high-control group, a toxic relationship, or a narcissistic parent.

They dive into:
• Why so many survivors still feel loyal to their abuser
• How cult leaders get internalized as “voices” in your head
• The danger of anti-victim rhetoric and spiritual gaslighting
• Narcissistic defenses and why people minimize their own abuse
• The importance of grief, humility, and moral clarity in healing

This isn’t just about cults. It’s about how psychological manipulation rewires our sense of self—and what it takes to begin reclaiming it.

Richard Grannon
Youtube Channel
https://www.instagram.com/richard.grannon/

Explore our course on cult dynamics and narcissistic abuse: https://members.richardgrannon.com/narcissistic-cults-decoded-course

Listen to the episode with Karen, a former NXIVM member of 40 years: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wtf-is-on-my-mind/id1646783869?i=1000710733086

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The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

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Episode Summary:

In this deeply intimate conversation, Mark sits down with his old friend Karen Unterreiner — a woman who spent four decades at the epicenter of what the world came to know as NXIVM. Once a high-ranking member, deeply entangled both professionally and personally with Keith Raniere, Karen shares her long journey of waking up from psychological captivity.

What does it mean to have your entire adult identity shaped by someone else’s manipulative design? How do you start to rebuild a self when that self was never fully yours to begin with?

Karen and Mark dive into the mechanics of grooming, the slow erosion of boundaries, and the double binds that kept people loyal. They unpack the devastating misuse of “ethics” as a weapon, the shame loops that silenced dissent, and the emotional landmines survivors navigate when they begin to deprogram.

Together, they reflect on friendship, betrayal, and the unexpected ways connection can spark liberation — even years after separation.

This episode is not just about NXIVM. It’s about the broader pattern of coercive control — in groups, relationships, families, and institutions — and what it takes to truly reclaim your mind.

⚠️ Content Warning:

This episode contains discussion of psychological abuse, grooming, coercive control, gaslighting, and long-term trauma. Please listen with care.

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

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Breaking the Spell — Motherhood, Escape & Reclaiming her Voice | Part 2

In Part 2 of this powerful conversation, Bethany Joy Lenz — actor, singer, and author of Dinner for Vampires — continues her story of life inside a high-control religious group while navigating fame on One Tree Hill.

This episode picks up where we left off: unpacking the emotional, spiritual, and psychological cost of living under manipulation — and what it takes to reclaim your voice once you’re out.

We talk about:
- The lingering effects of indoctrination
- The intensity of public life versus private suppression
- Shame, perfectionism, and the fear of being “bad”
- Narcissistic dynamics in spiritual systems
- Expressing rage and grief through art

Joy speaks with clarity, insight, and zero performative fluff — just one survivor speaking truthfully about the systems that tried to define her… and the long process of becoming herself again.

📚 Buy the Book
📖 Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While Also in an Actual Cult!) by Bethany Joy Lenz

Follow Bethany Joy Lenz →https://www.instagram.com/msbethanyjoylenz/

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MarkVicente
Website: www.markvicente.com
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Living Two Lives — Hollywood Fame & Hidden Cult Control | Part 1

“You can’t be human here.”

In Part 1 of this raw and revelatory conversation, One Tree Hill star Bethany Joy Lenz opens up about the decade she spent inside a high-control religious group — all while filming a hit TV show and hiding a double life.

We talk about:
- The slow creep of coercive control masked as faith
- The emotional and spiritual suppression that comes with people-pleasing
- The inner split of being both artist and captive
- How spiritual language is used to dominate
- What it feels like to finally scream, “Fck God, Fck Jesus, Fck everything”* — and why that moment was sacred

This isn’t just an interview. It’s a conversation between two people who’ve lived inside systems that punished authenticity and praised obedience. What emerged is a vulnerable, unfiltered exchange about waking up, falling apart, and coming home to yourself.

👉 Part 2 drops next week, where we go even deeper into Joy’s escape, motherhood, financial exploitation, and her journey to rebuild trust and voice.

📚 Buy the Book
📖 Dinner for Vampires: Life on a Cult TV Show (While Also in an Actual Cult!) by Bethany Joy Lenz

Follow Bethany Joy Lenz →https://www.instagram.com/msbethanyjoylenz/

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MarkVicente
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This episode contains candid discussion about narcissistic abuse, psychopathy, high-control systems, workplace trauma, and cult dynamics. Please listen with care.

What if the charming, high-achieving leader at your company—or in your government—isn’t just a narcissist… but a full-blown corporate psychopath? In this revealing episode, I sit down with Dr. Cynthia Mathieu, a psychologist and professor who studies “dark leadership”—the presence of psychopathic traits in organizational power structures.

Together, we dive into:

• How to spot a psychopath in the boardroom
• Why some HR departments miss the real danger
• The emotional cost for those caught in toxic systems
• What happens when we glamorize these traits in media
• And yes—what it was like to unknowingly study psychopathy… under a cult leader

If you’ve ever questioned your gut about a leader’s intentions or felt gaslit in a workplace, this conversation will help name what others try to deny.

Dr. Mathieu is the author of Dark Personalities in the Workplace → [Link to book]

More about her work: https://cynthiamathieu.com/en/

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MarkVicente
Website: www.markvicente.com
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Guest: Jacob Skidmore (@TheNamelessNarcissist)

Jacob Skidmore has been diagnosed with Narcissistic Personality Disorder. He’s one of the very few who talks about it—openly, unfiltered, and without a script.

In this raw and revealing conversation, we dive into the unsettling inner world of NPD: the chronic emptiness, the relentless need for admiration, the calculated personas, and the aching desire to be understood?

This is not a redemption arc. It’s a glimpse into a mind built to perform… and a human being trying to make sense of it.

⚠️ Content Warnings

This episode contains raw discussion of:

• Narcissistic personality disorder and manipulation
• Emotional detachment and masking
• Childhood trauma and psychological abuse
• Vindictiveness and self-loathing

If you’re a survivor of narcissistic abuse, please listen with care.

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MarkVicente
Website: www.markvicente.com
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In this episode, Mark Vicente unpacks the concept of self-sealing systems — those airtight ideological loops used in cults, extreme religious groups, and even political tribes to block out dissent and lock members deeper into belief. Drawing from his own lived experience in NXIVM (aka ESP), Mark explains how these systems use circular logic, linguistic reframing, and fear-based conditioning to keep followers compliant and questioning outsiders.

He explores:

• The emotional traps of “being at cause”
• The psychological architecture of films like The Village
• How certain keywords trigger shame, dismissal, or moral superiority
• The chilling trend of algorithmic censorship around trauma-related crimes
• Why courage means examining your own side — not just pointing fingers at “them”

This one might ruffle some feathers. But if no one’s pissed off… is he even doing his job?

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MarkVicente
Website: www.markvicente.com
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@markvicente7
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In this expletive laden and unfiltered solo episode, Mark Vicente dives deep into the subtle, insidious ways abusive individuals and systems exploit our longing to grow, reflect, and “be better.” He explores the psychological unraveling that happens when introspection is hijacked to suppress personal agency.

Drawing from his lived experience in NXIVM, Mark unpacks how coercive groups often encourage relentless self-examination not to empower, but to disable. The more you question yourself, the less you question them. He shares how terms like “narcissism on a spectrum” and “interdependence” are weaponized to gaslight dissent and justify control—especially over sensitive, self-aware individuals.

The episode also takes aim at the modern digital landscape, where platforms like YouTube reward hysteria, obedience, and superficiality while shadowbanning nuanced, divergent voices. Mark wrestles with a painful dilemma: should he tailor his messaging to appease the algorithm gods—or remain steadfastly authentic and risk invisibility?

This is a reflection on the price of truth, the cost of being “too sensitive,” and the mind games that keep good people doubting themselves while abusers thrive.

Themes Explored:

• Weaponized introspection & the psychology of disempowerment
• Narcissistic abuse vs. healthy self-assertion
• False narratives around “everyone’s a narcissist”
• Coercive control in high-control groups
• The trap of endless personal responsibility
• Digital censorship, shadow-banning & algorithmic obedience
• The tension between authenticity and visibility in online spaces

Support the show

The views and opinions expressed on WTF is on my Mind?! do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the podcast or Mark Vicente. Any content provided by guests are of their opinion and are not intended to malign any religion, group, club, organization, business individual, anyone or anything.

Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/MarkVicente
Website: www.markvicente.com
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@markvicente7
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