"I just met this person, and the state wants to kill him." That’s what Gretchen Engel was thinking the first time she met a death row inmate, as an intern at the Alabama Resource Center. Gretchen would eventually move to North Carolina and join the Center for Death Penalty Litigation in 1992. After 33 years, including a dozen as the CDPL’s executive director, she retired this summer. Gretchen reflects on victories and setbacks in this conversation with Amber Nimocks. And she looks ahead, suggesting that the state may be moving toward slowly abolishing the death penalty.

Name: Gretchen Engel

[02:44] Motivation: Gretchen explains how her interest in race and poverty led her to death penalty work, first in Alabama and eventually in North Carolina.

[06:00] Clemency Campaign: Gretchen details the CDPL’s six-month campaign that led former Governor Easley to grant clemency to a Black man sentenced to death by all-white juries.

[10:05] Changing the Narrative: In 2000, the CDPL worked with reporters from the “Charlotte Observer” on a series that exposed the inexperienced lawyers and sham trials of death row defendants. “It helped to start the public really thinking about how these cases are tried,” Gretchen recalls.

[13:13] Successes: Gretchen highlights the CDPL’s successes over the years, including the creation of the Indigent Defense System and the state’s ban on executing people with intellectual disabilities.

[16:09] Racial Justice Act: Four people have been removed from death row through this law that created a record of racism in jury selection across North Carolina.

[18:30] HB 307: This legislation, recently enacted, is committed to speeding up death penalty cases and exploring “increasingly barbaric methods of punishment,” Gretchen says.

[21:28] “Pure Demagoguery”: Gretchen discusses how politicians capitalize on “fear and hatred” to push forward legislation in the aftermath of particularly brutal crimes.

[24:50] Clemency: On December 31, 2024, North Carolina Governor Cooper commuted a record number of death penalty sentences – 15. Eleven were represented by the CDPL.

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Voices of NCAJ features members of the North Carolina Advocates for Justice talking about what it means to be a trial lawyer, what it takes to be great at the practice of law and how being a part of NCAJ enriches their lives and their careers.

Members of NCAJ belong to a nonprofit, nonpartisan association of legal professionals dedicated to empowering a strong community of trial lawyers to protect people, prevent injustice and promote fairness. Membership affords many benefits and we’re proud to offer...

“Improved appellate advocacy betters us all,” says Chris Edwards. “It betters the court system. It betters our outcomes.” The co-chair of Ward and Smith's Appellate Practice, Chris discusses how trial lawyers can improve their appellate advocacy in this conversation with host Amber Nimocks. He also highlights his new column for “Trial Briefs,” NCAJ’s flagship publication, where he shares his “superpowers” with NCAJ members. And he previews his Nov. 12 virtual CLE, “Winning on Appeal Starts at Trial,” where he’ll cover issue preservation, record building, and best practices.

🎙️ Featured Guest 🎙️

Name: Chris Edwards

Connect: LinkedIn

💡 Episode Highlights 💡

[02:00] Path to Appellate Practice: Clerkships in a federal district court and the US Court of Appeals shaped Chris’ career. “The first four years that I was in practice, all I knew was writing for, talking to, persuading judges.”

[03:38] Different Superpowers: Chris explains how appellate lawyers use storytelling differently than trial lawyers—telling the client's story through written briefs rather than in front of juries.

[05:06] Thinking Ahead: Even if trial lawyers don't handle appeals themselves, they should think strategically to ensure success if the case goes to appeal, Chris says.

[08:34] Vanguard v. Moody: Chris recaps his first “Appellate Thinking” column, which focused on the Supreme Court's ruling requiring specificity in motions for directed verdict.

[11:43] Evolving Case Law: Chris explains the fascinating part of appellate practice—watching how settled case law changes over time and seeing where courts are moving the law.

[14:24] Shifting Trends: Every US Supreme Court chief justice moves the court in a different direction, Chris observes.

[16:40] Coddle v. Mankin: Chris recalls co-authoring an NCAJ amicus brief about whether negligent supervision claims fall under medical malpractice laws.

[19:15] The Trial Lawyer Dynamic: “Practically speaking, an appellate lawyer's client is the trial lawyer,” Chris says as he explains the relationship. “I get to help my friends solve cool problems.”

[21:05] Common Appellate Questions: The three most common questions that Chris hears from trial lawyers: appellate timelines, post-trial motions, and assembling the record.

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Within hours of each other, two things happened that changed Coleman Cowan’s life. While waiting to take a deposition as a young associate, he realized that his reward for working hard would be more hard work. Hours later, while leaving that deposition, he was shot in a random mugging. Despite colleagues calling him “crazy,” Coleman left law to pursue journalism, eventually becoming an Emmy-winning producer for “60 Minutes.” In this conversation with host Amber Nimocks, he discusses his journey from North Carolina courtrooms to war zones around the world and back to North Carolina, where he now leads the litigation section at the Law Offices of James Scott Farrin. Coleman also previews his upcoming presentation at NCAJ's Strategy Summit. Called “To Live, Not Exist: What Our Experiences Can Teach Us About Managing Stress and Anxiety,” his program will be on Oct. 23, the first day of the two-day summit.

🎙️ Featured Guest 🎙️

Name: Coleman Cowan

Connect: LinkedIn

💡 Episode Highlights 💡

[02:34] The Epiphany: Two seminal events, occurring just hours apart, changed the course of Coleman’s life.

[07:39] “Monumentally Foolish Decision”: Everyone from partners to judges to law professors told Coleman he was "crazy" for leaving his successful legal career.

[07:51] Two Important Voices: Coleman's parents and then-girlfriend (now wife) were the two voices that encouraged his dramatic career change.

[10:50] Testing the Waters: Coleman talked his way into “Business Week” magazine to test his journalism idea before committing to graduate school.

[11:00] Hurricane Katrina: Coleman's first assignment covering Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans confirmed that he was "onto something pretty special" with journalism.

[12:32] Breakthrough: “60 Minutes" picked up Coleman's Columbia master's project on NYPD evidence storage.

[16:06] Naive to the Danger: ”It was only when we extracted from the situation that I really dawned on me how dangerous some of these places were,” Coleman says about covering stories from locations like Afghanistan, Mexico, and Russia.

[17:07] FSB Surveillance: Coleman describes being followed by Russian intelligence while reporting on Alexei Navalny's presidential campaign.

[18:21] It’s All Relative: When “60 Minutes” staff were stressed about a story, Coleman told himself that “this is not stressful.” TV producers are surrounded by people who want the show to succeed – while lawyers face opposing counsel who are tearing them down.

[23:52] Strategy Summit Preview: In his presentation, Coleman will tell stories from his journalism career and how those stories inform his current litigation practice.

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