A professor at Jackson State University in Mississippi, Robert T. Luckett Jr. discusses his book analyzing the career of Joe T. Patterson, the attorney general of Mississippi from 1956 to 1969. While the book focuses on Patterson, the study behind it looks at the larger scale of the effort to achieve equality for all.

Patterson, an avowed segregationist, tried to preserve the system of white hegemony by allowing some compromises with the civil rights movement but fighting with every legal means against others. During his time, the civil rights movement grew in power and form, and pulled the United States government and court system into a campaign to compel Mississippi and other Southern states to accept Black advancement.

But many years later, how much advancement has there been? And what of Southern exceptionalism? How has that idea born out? Robert Luckett discusses all of this and more in this episode with host William Miller.

“We are watching people today try to do the same things that Patterson and his ilk tried to do in the 1950s and ‘60s.” — Robert T. Luckett Jr.

Dr. Robert Luckett discusses how Joe T. Patterson and other segregationists used legal and political systems to block civil rights progress — and how those same strategies are being revived today.

He explains how the past isn’t just history, but a roadmap some leaders are following to suppress voting, dismantle public education, and silence communities of color.

Robbie also highlights the resilience of Jackson, Mississippi — a city pushing back against these efforts through activism, education, and a refusal to forget the truth of its history.

#CivilRightsLegacy

#MississippiPolitics

#HistoryRepeats

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Purchase a copy of Joe T. Patterson and the White South’s Dilemma on Amazon here: https://a.co/d/39ssxYw

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Be sure to check out our website for more information about our hosts, guests, and ways you can support the show: https://upstartcrow.org/

Thank you for listening to Upstart Crow, a part of Watershed Lit Radio

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Copyright 2025 - Upstart Crow Podcast - All Rights Reserved

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Edited & Produced by Jon D PodCom

Dinaw Mengestu is the author of four novels—Someone Like Us (2024), All Our Names (2014), How to Read the Air (2010), and The Beautiful Things That Heaven Bears (2007)— each of which was named a New York Times notable book. He was chosen as a MacArthur Fellow and has received a Lannan Literary Fellowship for Fiction, National Book Foundation 5-Under-35 Award, Guardian First-Book Award, Los Angeles Times Book Prize, and he recently was chosen by the Alan Cheuse International Writers Center to deliver the 2025 Cheuse Lecture.

His articles and fiction have appeared in the New York Times, New Yorker, Harper’s, Granta and Rolling Stone. As a journalist, Dinaw has reported on life in Darfur, Northern Uganda and eastern Congo. Dinaw is himself a native of Ethiopia who immigrated to the US with his parents when he was two years old.

In this episode of Upstart Crow, Dinaw talks with host William Miller in a wide-ranging conversation about the ways his own life story inform his fiction, how his work has developed over the years he has written, and the significance of many of the elements within each of the four novels.

"Lives are rarely good or bad. You know, we don't live in binaries. But what he is able to do is accept that he is here... and to kind of let go of this impossible return. That ability to accept—'this is my life'—still feels pretty profound to me."

— Dinaw Mengestu

The Power of Absence: Mengestu explores how silence and absence—especially of country, culture, and family—shape identity and narrative, allowing readers to feel the haunting spaces between what’s said and unsaid.

Immigrant Narratives Reimagined: His characters wrestle with displacement, the myth of return, and the trauma of migration, often facing the complex reality of accepting a new life while holding onto a lost one.

Violence and Perspective: Dinaw examines political and personal violence, not through spectacle but through subtlety—what is implied, withheld, and felt across generations.

#DinawMengestu #ImmigrantStories #UpstartCrowPodcast

Connect with Dinaw on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dinaw_mengestu/

Find out more about his books and where you can purchase them here: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/authors/170308/dinaw-mengestu/

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Be sure to visit the Upstart Crow website for more information about our guests, hosts, and ways you can support the podcast: https://upstartcrow.org/

Thank you for listening to Upstart Crow, a part of Watershed Lit Radio

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Copyright 2025 - Upstart Crow Podcast - All Rights Reserved

Recorded & Produced by Jon D PodCom

JonDpodcom@gmail.com

Dr. Rina Bliss, an associate professor of sociology at Rutgers University, discusses her most recent book, What’s Real About Race?, with Upstart Crow host William Miller.

In her scholarship, Dr. Bliss researches, writes about, and speaks about—as she puts it on her website—“the personal and social significance of new genetic sciences.” Her work “is centered at the intersection of sociology, psychology, and technology, offering a full-spectrum understanding of how our social worlds shape our personal worlds, affecting the health and quality of our lives.”

She brings her years of scholarship and observations to What’s Real About Race?

Published recently by W.W. Norton, the book looks at historic perspectives on race, views of race currently, and factors shaping the future view of race.

In the year 2000, President Bill Clinton and a half-dozen other world leaders joined to celebrate the finding of a science research project—an effort to map the genome of humans from around the world determined, as Dr. Bliss says, that “humans were 99.9 percent (genetically) the same.” Because people had conflated race and DNA, this finding challenged a lot of thinking.

But did it change minds? Following that declaration by scientists, there came another—“if race is not biological, what is? A social construct.” What does that even mean? Dr. Bliss answers that question, as well as what race being a social construct means given that people observe differences between themselves and other people. Where do those differences come from? What is the reality of race?

For the future, Dr. Bliss says we need “a new paradigm of race as well as a new language for talking about race”—but where would that come from, and how would those elements solve the race-related problems we see around us? She has ideas, which she discusses here.

One thing, she says, stop calling race a “social construct” and think of it as a “social reality.”

"We are all one family. So this idea of continental difference or division... it really cancels out any ability for us to recognize that we are all brothers and sisters." — Dr. Rina Bliss, author of What’s Real About Race

Check out Dr. Bliss’s website: https://www.drrinabliss.com/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.rinabliss/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rina-bliss-28263714/

Visit Upstart Crow on the web for more information about our hosts, guests, and how you can support the show: https://upstartcrow.org/

Copyright 2025 - Upstart Crow Podcast - All Rights Reserved

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Edited & Produced by Jon D PodCom

JonDpodcom@gmail.com