In this episode, we dive deep into one of the most bizarre and tragic chapters in the David narrative - the death of Absalom. Set against the backdrop of a father-son civil war, 2 Samuel 18 tells the surreal story of Absalom getting caught in a tree while riding a mule, and Joab's brutal decision to kill him despite David's explicit command to "deal gently" with his son. We explore the literary complexity of this text, including surprising parallels to Jesus' death, the politics of empire, and the profound cost of unchecked power dynamics within families and kingdoms.

Topics Covered

* The absurd circumstances of Absalom's death - How Absalom gets stuck in an oak tree while riding a mule and the darkly comic elements that make this biblical narrative so memorable

* Literary parallels between Absalom and Jesus - The striking similarities including hanging from a tree, betrayal, burial under stones, and the presence of multiple messengers racing to deliver news

* Joab's defiance and the exploitation of the Cushite messenger - How Joab deliberately ignores David's command and sends a foreign messenger (the Cushite) to deliver the devastating news, highlighting issues of belonging and exploitation of marginalized people

* David's dual role as king and father - The tension between David's political needs as a ruler and his emotional devastation as a father, including the shift from calling Absalom "the young man" to "my son"

* The broader costs of empire and injustice - How this tragic family drama reflects larger themes about the price of power, the perpetuation of cycles of violence, and the missed opportunity to address injustice against Tamar that started the whole conflict

Timestamps:

01:09 Recap of David and Absalom's Conflict

02:07 The Battle and Absalom's Fate

03:17 Joab's Defiance and Absalom's Death

04:40 The Aftermath and David's Mourning

05:26 Literary Parallels with the Crucifixion

21:12 Joab's Role and the Cushite Messenger

27:17 David's Dual Roles and Moral Dilemmas

32:18 Takeaways

Join Kate and Liz Charlotte Grant as they explore how to approach Scripture when traditional, literal interpretations no longer serve believers who are deconstructing or reframing their faith. Grant shares her journey of finding new ways to engage with biblical texts through literary analysis, diverse commentators, and interdisciplinary connections.

Liz Charlotte Grant is an award-winning essayist, author of the Empathy List substack, and her debut book, a personal, interdisciplinary commentary on the book of Genesis, Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible is available now.

Topics Covered:

* How traditional methods of reading the Bible, especially within White American Evangelicalism, have been limiting and sometimes harmful, and why new approaches are needed for those reframing their faith

* The importance of diverse voices in biblical interpretation, particularly from women, people of color, and other historically excluded groups who offer fresh perspectives beyond the dominant white male theological tradition

* Grant's creative approach to Genesis through interdisciplinary connections—linking biblical stories to art, science, and literature to illuminate scripture in new ways

* The distinction between factual accuracy and deeper truth in scripture, and why approaching the Bible through a literary lens can reveal profound insights without requiring historical literalism

* Practical advice for those wanting to re-engage with the Bible after deconstruction, including starting with commentaries, trusting your own reading, and creating a diverse "table" of interpretive voices

Grant's book uses creative writing and non-traditional sources to approach Genesis with fresh eyes, demonstrating how scripture can remain meaningful even after one's relationship with the Bible has fundamentally changed.

Timestamps:

01:12 Reframing Faith and Reading the Bible

01:49 Challenges of Traditional Biblical Interpretation

04:43 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives

10:18 Creative and Literary Approaches to the Bible

11:19 Truth vs. Historicity in Biblical Texts

17:12 Why Return to the Bible?

18:06 The Making of the Bible: A Complex Process

19:57 The Sinai Sisters: Manuscript Hunters

23:19 Catherine Bushnell: A Pioneer for Women in the Bible

26:41 Judith Butler: An Artist's Voice

32:24 Reengaging with the Bible: Tools and Tips

In this enlightening episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, host Kate Boyd sits down with Jennifer Layte to explore the concept of stages of faith. Despite many Christians being taught that faith is static or linear, Jennifer shares insights from both James Fowler's modern framework and Teresa of Avila's 16th-century "Interior Castle" to help listeners understand that spiritual growth naturally involves distinct phases and transitions. This conversation offers comfort and clarity for those navigating their own changing relationship with Jesus, especially during periods of deconstruction or spiritual uncertainty.

About Jennifer:

Jennifer A. G. Layte is a pastor, author of two published novels, and founder of The Pilgrimage—a Jesus-centered online spiritual formation community, created especially to tend to the stories of those who have been hurt by the church or are otherwise struggling in their faith.

Jennifer’s training and certification as an Advanced Practice Board Certified Chaplain, a spiritual director, and an ordained pastor have provided her with unique opportunities to work with diverse (on just about every metric) groups of people. The human stories she carries and the ways she has found to shepherd people through the difficult parts of those stories directly influence her writing. Meanwhile, her formal background in literature and theology gives her imaginative ways of retelling the stories of the Bible and of others, encouraging people to live within their own stories better.

Jennifer and her husband Paul live in New England with their two adorable rescue dogs, an impressive garden, and, to their fascination but not always delight, an astonishing array of wildlife.

Website and Social Media Links

Jennifer’s Book Follower

https://jenniferaglayte.com

https://the-pilgrimage.org

https://linktr.ee/jenniferaglayte

Topics Covered:

* Castles, Mansions, and Soul Work: Discover the fascinating historical frameworks for understanding faith transitions, from a 16th century nun's "Interior Castle" to modern psychological approaches

* "I'm Not Sure God Is Anywhere": Why those terrifying spiritual dry spells might actually be doorways to deeper faith, and how knowing about stages can help you not panic when they arrive

* When Church Activism Isn't Enough: Jennifer reveals the significant transition that many Western Christians are experiencing today, and why moving beyond the "busy doing" phase often feels so disruptive

* Same Beliefs, Different Grip: How you might end up believing many of the same things but holding them completely differently—and why Jennifer went from firmly opposing women pastors to becoming one herself

* Loving Across the Divide: Practical wisdom for those moments when you want to scream "Oh my God, what are these people thinking?"—and how to create meaningful connections with those in different faith stages

Timestamps:

00:47 Stages of Faith: An Overview

14:11 Challenges in Faith Transitions

20:58 The Importance of Growth in Faith

22:03 Evolving Beliefs and Perspectives

28:37 Balancing Tradition and Change

29:59 Engaging with Jesus in Faith

32:49 Loving Others in Different Stages

35:07 Grace in Imperfection