In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, Kate Boyd sits down with Lisa Colon DeLay, author of The Way of the Desert Elders, for an illuminating conversation about ancient Christian wisdom that speaks directly to modern faith struggles.

This isn't just church history—it's a roadmap for Christians navigating the tension between empire and authentic discipleship, offering embodied practices for healing religious trauma and rebuilding faith after deconstruction.

Lisa Colon DeLay is a pastor, author, and host of the Spark My Muse podcast. Her work focuses on spiritual formation and connecting modern Christians with ancient wisdom traditions. She's also the author of The Wild Land Within and offers resources for spiritual practices rooted in early Christian traditions.

Topics Covered

* How the Desert Fathers and Mothers (300-600 AD) responded when Christianity became corrupted by political power and empire, creating communities that prioritized devotion over career advancement and cultural status

* Understanding the nine "afflicting thoughts" (later developed into the seven deadly sins) as a holistic framework addressing body, mind, and spirit—not moral failings but predictable challenges that arise when pursuing spiritual growth

* Why healing from religious trauma requires embodied practices, not just cognitive processing, and how ancient spiritual disciplines can help integrate the physical, emotional, and spiritual dimensions of faith

* The essential role of spiritual mentorship in faith reconstruction, contrasting the Desert tradition of pairing every seeker with a spiritual mother or father against modern evangelicalism's individualistic approach to spiritual growth

* Exploring the practice of "vigil"—waiting expectantly on God as an active spiritual discipline that reorients us from productivity-based faith to relationship-based presence with the divine

* How ancient wisdom addresses modern challenges like spiritual overwhelm, digital distraction, and the temptation of "acedia" (spiritual boredom), offering practices for slowing down and creating space for intimacy with God

Timestamps:

00:52 Who Were the Desert Fathers and Mothers?

02:00 Empire and Faith: When Church Meets Political Power

05:00 Embodied Spirituality vs. Head-Centered Faith

09:00 Rebuilding Faith Through Ancient Community Models

13:00 The Nine Afflicting Thoughts: Body, Mind, Spirit 1

8:00 What Would Concern and Encourage the Desert Elders Today?

21:00 Productivity vs. Faithfulness: Redefining Spiritual Success

26:00 The Practice of Vigil: Active Waiting on God

30:00 Finding Lisa's Work and Resources

In 2 Samuel 19, we witness David's complicated return to power after Absalom's death—a chapter that reveals the messy intersection of grief, politics, and justice.

Through three pivotal encounters on his journey back to Jerusalem, we see how David's approach to leadership prioritizes political expediency over genuine justice, particularly in his heartbreaking dismissal of Mephibosheth's legitimate grievances.

This chapter serves as a sobering preview of the kingdom's coming division, showing us the cost of leadership that values loyalty over righteousness and efficiency over authentic relationship.

Topics We Cover

* How David's public mourning for Absalom gets shut down by Joab, leading to immediate political maneuvering that reveals the performative nature of his subsequent "mercy"

* Examining David's encounters with Shimei (performative forgiveness), Mephibosheth (dismissive injustice), and Barzillai (transactional loyalty) as a study in how power corrupts discernment

* Why David's unjust ruling that divides Saul's land represents both a violation of Torah justice and literary foreshadowing of the kingdom's eventual split

* How David's calculated mercy exposes a broader cultural pattern of transactional relationships that prioritizes political gain over authentic love and loyalty

* Exploring how David's "move fast and break things" approach to leadership reflects systems that value efficiency over people, ultimately fracturing both family and kingdom

Timestamps:

01:42 David's Return to Jerusalem

05:13 David's Grief and Political Maneuvering

10:05 Joab's Role and David's Struggles

13:33 Generational Trauma and Loyalty

19:51 David's Strategic Forgiveness

25:20 Chronological and Literary Analysis

27:02 The Impact of David's Actions on Mephibosheth

30:11 David's Strategic Kindness and Manipulation

33:58 The Exhaustion of Maneuvering in a Toxic System

38:39 Foreshadowing the Split of the Kingdom

44:43 Takeaways

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, Kate Boyd sits down with Rev. Dr. Malcolm Foley, author of The Anti-Greed Gospel, for a bold conversation about money, power, and faith that most churches avoid.

This is about more than stewardship. It's a prophetic call to reimagine what Christian community could look like when we take Jesus' economic teachings seriously.

Rev. Dr. Malcolm Foley serves as special advisor to the President for equity and campus engagement at Baylor University and co-pastors Mosaic Waco, an intentionally multicultural church in Waco, TX. He has written for Christianity Today, The Anxious Bench, and Mere Orthodoxy.

Topics Covered

* Understanding how Jesus identified money/riches as the primary rival to God for human devotion, and why this spiritual reality demands material responses in how we live and share resources

* How the pursuit of cheap labor and expanded markets drove the development of racial categories as justification for exploitation, creating what Foley calls "a demonic cycle of self-interest"

* Exploring how American Christianity has separated racial justice from economic justice, focusing on generosity and stewardship while avoiding discussions of greed, class, and systemic exploitation

* The difference between generous giving that maintains power imbalances and true solidarity that seeks equality and mutual exchange, as modeled in 2 Corinthians 8

* How to read texts like the Sermon on the Mount without softening their radical economic demands, believing that "by the Spirit we can" live into Jesus' vision of community sharing and mutual care

Timestamps:

00:52 Discussing Money and Greed in the Bible

01:37 Mammon and Its Implications

03:03 Greed, Generosity, and Economic Justice

10:26 Historical Context of Greed and Racism

16:09 Economic Justice and the Church's Role

24:36 Concluding Thoughts and Encouragement