Journalist and author Scott Latta joins Amy Fritz to discuss Scott's new book, Gods of the Smoke Machine: Power, Pain, and the Rise of Christian Nationalism in the Megachurch, sharing stories of power, accountability, and the changing landscape of American megachurches.

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In this episode we:

• Explore why megachurches are growing even as overall church attendance in America declines.

• Examine the evolution from traditional "big box" churches to franchise-style, multi-site megachurch models.

• Discuss the impact of megachurch growth on small churches, including the cannibalization of congregations and properties.

• Explore the profound loss experienced by members when megachurch scandals or abusive leaders come to light, and how that pain is multiplied by scale.

• Hear firsthand stories from those harmed by toxic church systems and why amplifying survivor voices is critical.

• Unpack the phenomenon of faux accountability and restoration processes for fallen pastors in megachurch networks.

• Discuss Boz Tchividjian's insights on the legal landscape, the role of financial consequences in church accountability, and why civil litigation is sometimes the only path to justice.

• Investigate how megachurches cultivate soft political power, their influence on Christian nationalism, and the increasing willingness of pastors to openly engage in politics.

• Offer practical wisdom for those seeking healthy faith communities, what real accountability looks like, and how to rethink church engagement after disillusionment.

Featured Guest

• Scott Latta Gods of the Smoke Machine | Scott Latta | Substack

Resources mentioned

• Faithful Counseling BetterHelp - Get Started & Sign-Up Today

• Scott Latta's Substack Gods of the Smoke Machine | Scott Latta | Substack

• Scott Latta on Bluesky Scott Latta (@scottlatta.bsky.social) — Bluesky

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Author and speaker Mary DeMuth joins Amy Fritz on the Untangled Faith podcast to talk about the practice of surrender, what it looks like in the midst of personal trials, and the story behind her newest devotional book, The Freedom of Surrender: 40 Devotions for a Joyful Life in Christ.

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In this episode we:

• Hear the origin story behind Mary's newest book, including how she combined her writing and original art in a 40-day devotional on surrender.

• Discuss what it means to surrender reputation, finances, relationships, aging, and even inner cynicism—and how Mary has personally wrestled with these themes.

• Talk honestly about vulnerability, church hurt, and the ongoing journey of healing from trauma and moral injury.

• Explore the tension between discernment and cynicism, especially when coming out of abusive faith communities.

• Share practical encouragement for those feeling isolated or stuck in their faith, and ways we can invite Jesus into our everyday struggles.

• Reflect on the power of community and honesty in the process of spiritual growth.

Featured Guest

• Mary DeMuth

Resources mentioned

• Faithful Counseling BetterHelp - Get Started & Sign-Up Today

• Church Hurt Checklist

• Bookstore - Mary DeMuth

• The Freedom of Surrender: https://amzn.to/4q8Nn63

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This episode contains content that may be difficult for those who have experienced violence or who are sensitive to mentions of abuse or intimate partner violence. Please take care when listening.

In 2007, Pastor Neil Schori sat down with a woman who had come to him for marriage counseling. You probably recognize her name: Stacy Peterson.

Not long after that conversation, Stacy when missing and still has not been found.

Her husband, Drew Peterson, is serving time in prison for being convicted of murdering his previous wife.

Pastor Neil joins the Untangled Faith podcast to share his thoughts on the Steven Crowder video, what he wishes he had known about intimate partner violence and what friends and faith community leaders need to know to be safe places for those who may not even know they are in danger.

In this episode, we talk about:

• The multiple facets of abuse go beyond bodily injury.

• The necessity of pastors to possess the right skills to manage abusive scenarios.

• Red flags the signal abuse situations.

• Empowering victims

• How incorrect theology is harming those being abused.

Links:

Document the Abuse website: https://documenttheabuse.com

Neil Schori on Twitter: https://twitter.com/neilschori

Neil Schori coaching: https://www.facebook.com/SchoriCoaching

Sign up for Amy's email list and get her weekly podcast updates and monthly newsletter: https://untangledfaithpodcast.com

Related Episodes:

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com/2022/05/11/43-what-weve-gotten-wrong-about-divorce-guest-gretchen-baskerville/

Support the show:

Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling- https://faithfulcounseling.com/untangled

Where you can find me:

https://untangledfaithpodcast.com

https://instagram.com/untangledfaith

https://instagram.com/amyhenningfritz

Hillary McBride joins Amy Fritz on the Untangled Faith podcast to unpack spiritual trauma, healing, and how we can create faith communities that avoid replicating unhealthy patterns.

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In this episode we:

• Explore who McBride's new book, Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing, is for and how different groups relate to spiritual trauma.

• Define spiritual abuse and spiritual trauma, and unpack the common misconceptions surrounding these terms.

• Discuss how curiosity and hope can bridge the gap between those who have and haven't experienced spiritual trauma.

• Address the accusation that spiritual trauma is a "fad" and reflect on the history and reality of spiritual harm, especially for marginalized communities.

• Consider the ethical complexities of sharing stories—both for survivors of spiritual trauma and those hosting podcasts or creating resources.

• Talk through practical ways new communities and organizations can avoid recreating harmful power dynamics and foster safety and agency.

• Reflect on the role of conflict, repair, and personal healing in faith spaces and survivor communities.

• Touch on generational differences in openness to processing and naming spiritual harm and why resources matter for healing.

Featured Guest

• Hillary McBride

Resources mentioned

• Faithful Counseling BetterHelp - Get Started & Sign-Up Today

• Holy Hurt: Understanding Spiritual Trauma and the Process of Healing

• Hillary L McBride - Therapist, Researcher, Speaker and Writer

• Hillary L McBride (@hillaryliannamcbride) • Instagram photos and videos

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Chris Staron, host of the Truce podcast joins Amy to talk about the importance of looking at history to make sense of this current moment.

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In this episode we:

• Talk about the origin story of the Truce podcast and Chris's approach to using history to illuminate today's faith questions.

• Discuss the power of curiosity and humility in addressing gaps in our knowledge.

• Reflect on the importance of surrounding ourselves with experts—and being open to their feedback.

• Examine how historical context can reshape our assumptions about gender roles, especially in the context of "biblical womanhood."

• Challenge the idea that "this is the worst it's ever been" by exploring history's patterns and precedents.

• Talk about identifying trustworthy sources—and red flags—in historical writing, including the importance of bibliographies and the dangers of consuming information solely from those who share our theological or political biases.

• Analyze the work (and controversy) surrounding figures like David Barton and the misinterpretation of America's Christian roots.

• Highlight the value of reading outside our usual bubbles and expanding our knowledge beyond World War II or familiar American history.

• Encourage listeners to approach new information, especially history, with a willingness to be challenged and changed.

Featured Guest

• Chris Staron

• website: www.trucepodcast.com
• x: https://x.com/trucepodcast/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/trucepodcast
• Blue Sky: https://bsky.app/profile/trucepodcast.bsky.social
• instagram: www.instagram.com/trucepodcast
• Threads: https://www.threads.com/@trucepodcast

Resources mentioned

• Robert Caro's "The Years of Lyndon Johnson" series

• Isabel Wilkerson's The Warmth of Other Suns"

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Amy Fritz shares an update on what's happening with the Amos v. Lampo Group and O'Connor v. Lampo Group lawsuits and a brief summer update.

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Resources mentioned

• Substack Update https://untangledfaith.substack.com/p/finding-my-podcast-rhythm

• Amos v. Lampo Group filings https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/61614266/amos-v-lampo-group-llc-the/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

• O'Connor v. Lampo Group filings https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17372107/oconnor-v-the-lampo-group-llc/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

You can find more Ramsey Episodes here: https://www.untangledfaithpodcast.com/categories/ramsey-solutions-dave-ramsey/

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Dr. Camden Morgante joins Amy Fritz to talk about all the awful metaphors and false promises of purity culture, and a better way forward. If you grew up reading Josh Harris and Elisabeth Elliot, you're going to love this one!

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Featured Guest

• Dr. Camden Morgante https://drcamden.com/press/

Resources mentioned

• Dr. Camden's site: https://drcamden.com/press/

• Dr. Camden's Substack: https://drcamden.substack.com/

• Recovering From Purity Culture https://amzn.to/4kQmSPN

Tell Your Friends!

If you loved this episode, leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and share it with a friend. Tag us if you share it on social media.

Follow Untangled Faith wherever you listen to podcasts

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Have you been told to (or seen others) push through personal pain and trauma while engaging in advocacy for the health of the Church without being given the tools to manage your (or their) own emotional wellness? Are you often feeling overwhelmed and exhausted?

Meet Lori Anne Thompson: a compassionate survivor, storyteller, and student. Lori Anne is a devoted wife, mother, and enthusiastic cook who loves to share her passion for sustainable rhythms and healing for those who have survived trauma.

This episode was initially shared in April 2023, but with the heartbreaking loss of Jennifer Lyell, I wanted to share it again. You can find more information on Jennifer Lyell here: Died: Jennifer Lyell, SBC Abuse Survivor and Former Lifeway Executive - Christianity Today

Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com

Lori Anne and Amy talk through these topics in this episode of the Untangled Faith podcast:

Who is Lori Anne Thompson?

The Three Phases of Recovery

How trauma can't be your whole life

Chronic activation

Finding sustainable ways to give back

Red flags to look for

Becoming what we're against

The power of saying no.

Resources:

Victim Impact Statement from Lori Anne Thompson regarding Ravi Zacharias:

https://loriannethompson.com/2021/02/08/lori-anne-thompson-victim-impact-statement/

https://loriannethompson.com

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/podcasts/bulletin/cpac-trump-transgenderism-oscars.html

Truth & Repair: How Trauma Survivors Envision Justice by Judith Herman: https://amzn.to/3mxzx0W

Subscribe to my newsletter: https://untangledfaith.substack.com

This podcast is sponsored by Faithful Counseling. For more information and for 10% off your first month, visit Faithful Counseling- https://faithfulcounseling.com/untangled