Episode Show Notes:

Nick shares a secret squirrel message from an executive post corporate Microsoft Copilot rollout – $1.4 million spent, almost no usage, and a board satisfied by a graph trending “up and to the right.” Nick and Raal debate whether it’s genuine or sharply observed satire, which sets the tone for a wider discussion about AI adoption theatre versus measurable operational impact.

Raal reflects on his own Copilot frustrations and the broader issue: boards mandating “AI adoption” without defining outcomes. They examine hallucinations, agentic AI, and the growing temptation to delegate higher-order decision-making to systems whose workings are increasingly opaque. The core tension: productivity claims versus verification and control.

The conversation then shifts to economics and disrupting business models as a LinkedIn post reveals a $50,000 monthly AI compute bill that sparks the deeper question, does AI break the SaaS model? If margins are eroded, scalability is undermined and the structural shift could reshape how maritime software is priced and sold.

From there, the lens widens. Jeff Bezos’ $6.2 billion AI-industrial venture, Project Prometheus, and Elon Musk’s consolidation of AI, satellites, and space-based data centres suggest that infrastructure control – not just applications – is becoming strategic. For maritime, the implications sit at the intersection of connectivity, compute, and geopolitics.

Finally, the discussion returns firmly to shipping. Wind propulsion formally enters the IMO’s draft safety framework, signalling institutional momentum. Meanwhile, the rise of fraudulent flag registries. As regulatory pressure increases, so too does the ingenuity of evasion.

Chapters:

• 01:21 The Copilot “digital transformation” satire

• 06:20 Copilot vs ChatGPT and measuring AI ROI

• 21:32 SaaS economics under AI compute pressure

• 22:47 Bezos’ Project Prometheus and industrial AI

• 31:55 Musk, space-based AI infrastructure, and valuation games

• 44:22 Wind propulsion enters IMO safety framework

• 52:38 Fraudulent flags and phantom registries
  

Nick and Raal sit down with Mikael Skov, CEO of Hafnia and one of the most influential individuals in modern tanker shipping. Mikael outlines Hafnia’s evolution into one of the world’s largest product tanker operators, grounded in spot market exposure and global trading. He reflects on entering shipping by chance, why it quickly becomes a lifestyle, and how cycles hardwire behaviour, risk tolerance, and leadership mindset.

The conversation moves to Hafnia’s post–financial crisis founding, the non-negotiable importance of assembling a credible team early, and what changes when you build alongside professional investors.

Attention turns to growth, consolidation, and recent strategic moves, including the TORM stake, and counter-cyclical fleet investments. Skov discusses energy transition pragmatically, emphasising alignment with cargo owners, longer-term contracts, and learning through initiatives like Seascale Energy.

The episode closes with leadership and responsibility: managing volatility without paralysis, creating space for innovation inside large organisations, confronting the systemic risks of the dark fleet, and defending international regulation as the least-worst framework available in a fractured geopolitical world.

A rare conversation with one of shipping’s most consequential operators who has built scale through cycles, stayed disciplined when others chased narratives, and is clear-eyed about what actually works in shipping.

Chapters

• 02:21 Entering shipping and why it becomes a lifestyle

• 06:13 Cyclicality, spot markets, and competitive advantage

• 07:56 Founding Hafnia after TORM

• 09:31 Building a credible founding team for investors

• 13:36 Timing the cycle and learning capital discipline

• 20:47 Pooling, partnerships, and commercial scale

• 31:03 Culture, governance, and growing a global organisation

• 37:40 Buying ships at the bottom of the cycle

• 41:12 TORM stake and consolidation logic

• 44:06 Energy transition strategy and client alignment

• 57:07 Long-term thinking versus quarterly markets

• 1:01:38 Volatility, fleet age, and future supply

In this episode, Raal and Nick turn to a sobering ITF report showing seafarer and vessel abandonment at its worst-ever levels. They unpack what abandonment actually means in practice, why Indian seafarers are disproportionately affected, and how ownership structures, sanctions, and flags of convenience leave crews with little protection or recourse.

From there, the discussion broadens to transparency, data, and trust: why individual seafarers struggle to assess operator risk, how fragmented information limits accountability, and why even well-intentioned standards struggle to reach those most exposed. The conversation then pivots to the International Standards Organisation, illustrating how conformance standards quietly underpin global trade, from containers and currencies to unexpected examples like tea preparation.

The episode closes with a pragmatic look at modern shipping realities: USB sticks still moving critical vessel data, the absence of shared operational standards, and practical advice on navigating the 2026 maritime events calendar, including how to minimise chance, maximise learning, and extract real value from industry gatherings.

• 01:45 ITF data and the scale of seafarer abandonment
• 14:50 Flags of convenience and structural incentives
• 20:59 Why standards matter in global trade
• 26:18 ISO standards, from containers to tea
• 39:12 USB sticks, bay plans, and broken data exchange
• 43:00 Maritime events calendar for 2026

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