Tupac Shakur and the political soul of hip-hop

Episode Summary  Politics is a battle over elections and policies, but underneath it’s really a battle over stories, the cultural myths that shape our sense of identity, power, and possibility. And few stories loom larger in the American imagination than the saga of Tupac Shakur, the rapper and actor whose influence continues to resonate across the globe nearly 30 years after his death.It’s easy to see why. The problems of poverty, racism, capitalism, and inequality are as present today as they were when Tupac and other early hip-hop musicians began telling stories that no one else would.Talking about all of this with me today is Dean Van Nguyen. He’s the author of a new biography of Tupac Shakur called “Words for My Comrades: A Political History of Tupac Shakur” that highlights the political legacy that was lost when the emcee was gunned down in the streets of Las Vegas in 1996. While today’s rap industry has largely been absorbed by the capitalism its pioneers once resisted, the radical spirit Tupac embodied still echoes—sometimes in unexpected places.One of those places is Donald Trump’s political movement. In a bizarre turn, Trump has increasingly styled himself as a hip-hop folk hero—and, surprisingly, more than a few rappers have gone along with it. This is a conversation about symbolism, masculinity, memory, and resistance.The video of this episode is available, the transcript is below. Because of its length, some podcast apps and email programs may truncate it. Access the episode page to get the full text.Theory of Change and Flux are listener supported. We need your help to keep going. Please subscribe to stay in touch!Related Content—A flashback look at how Donald Trump reached out to hip-hop stars to push his 2024 message —Nicki Minaj, Snoop Dogg, and toxic gravitation: How reactionaries bond over mutual narcissism 🔒—Why the decline of the black church is helping Republicans reach new voters—Doja Cat and the lies we tell ourselves about sex and race—Many Black Americans don’t like Democrats, but they loathe Republicans even more, which disdain will prove stronger?Audio Chapters00:00 — Introduction05:53 — Tupac’s continued global resonance09:14 — The origins of hip-hop and its commercialization11:35 — Tupac’s legacy of contradictions18:41 — The Black Panthers’ influence on Tupac’s mother23:50 — Masculinity and gender within hip-hop29:06 — Gender and sexuality in the Black Panther Party35:56 — Obama and Trump in rap39:12 — Former Panthers still have hope for the future despite Trump41:31 — Trump’s 2024 campaign reached out heavily to hip-hop artists46:22 — ‘Coolness’ as a non-political voter persuasion method50:22 — How Van Nguyen brought oral history into his book58:19 — Eazy-E, another political West Coast emcee 01:01:55 — The meanings of ‘thug life’Audio TranscriptThe following is a machine-generated transcript of the audio that has not been proofed. It is provided for convenience purposes only.MATTHEW SHEFFIELD: And joining me now is Dean Van Nguyen. Hey, Dean. Welcome to Theory of Change.DEAN VAN NGUYEN: Thank you. Thanks for having me.SHEFFIELD: Yeah. So this book is, it's a really important book, actually, I think especially because it's connecting a lot of ideas that got started during the life of Tupac Shakur, obviously by him, but also by other people.And he's a guy that continues to remain relevant despite having been killed decades ago. And you write in the introduction of the book that you see him as America's last revolutionary figure. Tell us about that.VAN NGUYEN: I think America actually isn't a nation that tends to create these. Figures. It's been a, a stable political, system for quite a while now. So I think when you see where Tupac's icon has resonated mostly across the world, and it tends to be in countries that have histories of colonialism and colonial oppression and anti-colonial uprising such as my own country, which is Ireland and nations that have suffered brutal dictatorships and have had uprisings against that and things of that nature.So he, I think his icon has grown to, to be almost this, almost like avara figure where he. He represents [00:04:00] ideals, like to see his image ignites certain feelings within people or certain ideas within people of, revolution and resistance. And I don't think there's actually too many Americans as you could actually say that about.Yeah, I think if you got, like there was, of the, figures in the book as well who's icon, who's I comparing to a little bit is like Bob Marley. Che Guevara. So, yeah, I think I, I can't really think of anyone who's come since him that really matches that, that that symbol that he's become, side of the us.SHEFFIELD: If we expand outside of the us other non-American figures can you think of people after Tupac generally that are, that widely known and recognized as revolutionary icons?​I think he's certainly, I think, the...