In this episode, we delve into Chapter 80 of the Daodejing, one of the most vivid portraits of Daoist social ideals. We unpack its vision of a “simple agrarian utopia,” where people live in small communities, ignore labor-saving tools, and resist the endless chase for more. Along the way, we discuss political minimalism, technological restraint, contentment in daily life, and radical localism, asking what it would mean to be satisfied even while knowing other or "better" possibilities exist. We reflect on our own consumerist culture, and probe whether Daoist utopia is naive, radical, or unexpectedly wise for our time.

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Want to skip to the philosophical content?

13:15 Preview of today's passage: chapter 80 of the Daodejing
18:03 Part II -- Daoist utopia

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

With a big assist from our guest, Stephen C. Walker, we discuss a highly unusual philosophical dialogue in classical Chinese literature, the "Robber Zhi Dialogue" (from the Miscellaneous Chapters of the Zhuangzi). This shocking story shows Confucius attempting to convince the story's anti-hero (Robber Zhi) to give up his vicious ways. By the end of the story, Confucius emerges as the more naive and inauthentic of the two characters, and moral exemplars in general are called into question. Are purveyors of morality also robbers themselves?

Stephen C. Walker's research page

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website

In this episode, Justin and Richard discuss how historical Confucian philosophers have proposed to recognize people of good moral character (virtue). How, exactly, did they think that we could tell the real virtues apart from the phony ones? And what did the historical Confucians think about the use of written examination essays to "test" for virtue?

Many thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.

Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.

We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉 ) for her expert editing and sound engineering. We also thank the blog Warp, Weft & Way for hosting the discussion for this episode.

Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to

8:29 Part II -- Confucianism on character assessment

Co-hosts:
Richard Kim's website
Justin Tiwald's website