Was Thomas Jefferson the sole author of the Declaration? In this episode of This Constitution, Matthew Brogdon sits down with Holly Megson, senior documentary editor on the Quill Project at Pembroke College, Oxford, to trace how the Declaration of Independence actually took shape inside the Second Continental Congress. Together, they move beyond the familiar image of Jefferson writing alone and uncover the collective effort that produced one of history’s most influential political texts.

Matthew and Holly explore the formation of the Committee of Five—Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Roger Sherman, and Robert Livingston—and examine what little documentary evidence survives of their work. From Jefferson’s heavily marked “rough draft” to the conflicting memories Adams and Jefferson recorded decades later, the episode reveals how the Declaration emerged amid secrecy, overwhelming workloads, and deep uncertainty about whether independence would even be approved.

The conversation also asks a critical historical question: how should credit be assigned? While Jefferson clearly served as the Declaration’s primary draftsman, Holly explains why the document is best understood as a collaborative act of statesmanship, shaped by shared grievances, inherited political language, and editorial interventions from Adams, Franklin, and Congress itself.

This episode ultimately shows that America’s most iconic statement of independence was not the product of a single moment of inspiration; instead, it was the result of collective judgment under extraordinary pressure.

In This Episode

• (00:14) Meet Holly Megson and the Quill Project
• (01:13) Why the lone-author myth persists
• (01:25) The Committee of Five explained
• (02:23) Sources Jefferson consulted while drafting
• (03:17) How legislative committees actually write documents
• (04:24) What instructions Jefferson may have received
• (05:47) Earlier grievances and preexisting language
• (07:44) Why Sherman and Livingston fade from the record
• (08:52) Adams vs. Jefferson: conflicting memories
• (10:10) Jefferson’s response to Adams’s account
• (12:58) The crushing committee workload
• (14:33) Drafting under wartime pressure
• (16:25) Congress edits, Jefferson objects
• (17:38) Was Jefferson the author or the draftsman?
• (18:44) Why contemporaneous records matter

Notable Quotes

• (00:46) "Americans sort of walk around with an image in mind that Jefferson sat down in his boarding room and drafted the declaration, showed it to a few people, and then Congress adopted it. And there's a much more complex drafting process." — Matthew Brogdon
• (01:46) " There are no records, unsurprisingly, of when they met because of the nature of what they were discussing." — Holly Megson
• (07:02) "Jefferson, very helpfully after the Revolutionary War, decided that he wanted to mark [the Rough Draft] document... he doesn't attribute any of the changes to Livingston or Sherman." — Holly Megson
• (10:13) "The committee unanimously decided that he should write the draft, refuting the idea of any kind of subcommittee and really reinforcing that. It was a one-man endeavor,"— Holly Megson
• (17:53) " Jefferson is definitely the primary author, but if he were an academic, he'd be quite a bad academic. He hasn't properly cited his co-authors." — Holly Megson
• (17:39) "I don't necessarily dispute that he was the author. I do think the term draftsman is more appropriate." — Holly Megson
• (19:04) “I do think it is important, in summary, to say Jefferson plays the principal role. He is in many ways the draftsman author of the Declaration, but owes so much to the collaborative work that goes on in this committee.” — Matthew Brogdon

What if the Declaration of Independence wasn’t just Jefferson’s triumph, but John Adams’s victory too?

In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon make the case for giving John Adams his due. Often remembered as prickly, pompous, or perpetually overshadowed, Adams was in fact one of the most important and hardest-working architects of American independence.

Savannah and Matthew trace Adams’s rise from a New England farmer’s son to the fiercest and most relentless advocate for independence in the Continental Congress. Long before July 4, 1776, Adams was pushing Congress toward self-government, drafting foundational documents, organizing the war effort, and building the coalition that made independence possible.

The episode explores Adams’s deep commitment to the rule of law, his principled defense of the British soldiers after the Boston Massacre, and his decisive role in nominating George Washington as commander in chief. It also reveals how Adams shaped the Declaration itself, not just as Jefferson’s editor, but as the strategist who insisted a Virginian write it, helped outline its structure, supplied key ideas and language, and then defended it on the floor of Congress as its fiercest champion.

Along the way, Savannah and Matthew unpack Adams’s political philosophy, especially his emphasis on consent, safety, and happiness as the true ends of government, and show how his thinking echoes throughout the Declaration and later American constitutional design.

The episode concludes with Adams’s enduring legacy, a founder who may never have been popular, but whose ambition, integrity, and relentless work helped create a nation and who deserves far more credit than history often gives him.

In This Episode

• [00:10 Introduction and justice for John Adams
• [01:20] Adams’s early life and background
• [03:14] Personality and public perception
• [07:17] Principles and the Boston Massacre defense
• [08:23] Role in the Continental Congress
• [09:21] Adams’s push for new governments
• [12:55] Lee’s resolution and Adams’s advocacy
• [15:48] Adams’s personality and coalition building
• [18:23] Formation of the Committee of Five
• [22:43] Adams’s self-awareness and Jefferson’s drafting
• [24:20] The drafting process and Adams’s influence
• [27:13] Adams as defender of the Declaration
• [28:10] Adams’s language and philosophy in the Declaration
• [32:59] Adams’s post-revolution contributions
• [34:27] Adams’s legacy and death
• [35:28] Adams in popular culture and the need for a monument
• [38:04] Conclusion and call for justice

Notable Quotes

• (00:21) “The theme of this episode is justice for John Adams.”— Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (11:07) “Adams pushed Congress in the fall of 1775. We're months, half a year from independence. And Adams is saying Congress should tell states to establish new governments based on the consent of their own people, exercising their own judgment with the idea that they would conduce to the happiness and safety of their constituents and America in general.”— Matthew Brogdon
• (18:07) “It does take a person like John Adams who will just ignore the social cues, like ignore all of the social opprobrium attached to being caught making trouble, to actually induce everybody to move, get the job done right.”— Matthew Brogdon
• (23:00) “You are a Virginian, and a Virginian ought to appear at the head of this business.”— John Adams
• (27:50) “In many ways, yes, Jefferson wrote the Declaration, but it’s Adams’s Declaration too.”— Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (34:29)“John Adams deserves a lot more credit for the Declaration of Independence and for the American system of government in general.”— Savannah Eccles Johnston

Did you know that Thomas Jefferson originally wrote a fierce condemnation of slavery into the Declaration of Independence, only for Congress to remove it before signing the final document? And did you know that in 1776, no one was certain whether slavery in America would fade away, transform, or expand?

In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Dr. Nicholas Cole, Pembroke College, University of Oxford, explore the complicated world of slavery at the time the Declaration was written. Together, they walk through why Jefferson’s anti-slavery passage was removed, how Americans understood slavery in 1776, and why the institution stood on a very uncertain foundation during the revolutionary period.

Dr. Cole explains how the Atlantic world, English legal rulings, gradual emancipation proposals, and the widespread reading of Montesquieu shaped early American thinking. The conversation also explores the financial barriers to ending slavery, the moral and religious arguments circulating in the colonies, and the troubling realities within slaveholder families, including Jefferson’s own. They then discuss figures like George Washington and John Adams and how their attitudes toward slavery reveal a more complex political and moral landscape than many assume.

This episode shows how the Declaration of Independence emerged from a moment filled with unresolved questions, intense debate, and moral tension. It challenges the idea that the founders were blind to the contradictions of slavery and highlights how close the nation may have been to choosing a very different path.

In This Episode

• (00:00) Introduction and episode setup
• (01:17) Jefferson’s stricken slavery passage
• (01:28) Physicality and emphasis in Jefferson’s draft
• (04:29) Context and debates on slavery in 1776
• (06:00) Legal and social shifts against slavery
• (09:20) Gradual emancipation and economic obstacles
• (12:53) Humanity vs. property: enslaved persons as ‘men.’
• (14:29) Changing racial attitudes and moral regression
• (15:38) Jefferson, Sally Hemings, and family complexities
• (17:47) Christian and moral arguments against slavery
• (19:09) Philosophical and legal arguments on slavery
• (21:10) Montesquieu, republicanism, and slavery’s contradiction
• (22:08) George Washington, Adams, and founders’ approaches
• (25:13) Slavery and the founding compromises

Notable Quotes

• (06:01) “Montesquieu said you can't really have a republic and slavery, and that the arguments in favor of slavery are illegitimate.” - Dr. Nicholas Cole
• (11:08) “But I think there is this real problem that so much money has been loaned in order to allow people to own slaves. And so that makes ending it very difficult.” - Dr. Nicholas Cole
• (13:14) “Jefferson knew his property consisted of men. He understood the moral weight of that contradiction.” - Dr. Nicholas Cole
• (23:41) “Washington does things as a slave owner that we would find utterly abhorrent, including rotating slaves from his household when he's president and in a state that doesn't recognize slavery.” - Dr. Nicholas Cole
• (24:37) “Maybe it's better to speak more about Washington and certainly Adams and less about Jefferson as kind of core founding fathers. Hopefully, we're more Washingtonian and more like Adams, the American political project, than Jefferson.” - Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (25:20) “If anybody had tried to use the convention to settle the question of slavery, there would have been no union. That is absolutely clear."- Dr. Nicholas Cole
• (26:19) “1776 is murky on the question of slavery, and this actually helps us understand the moment and the document and what it represents and what it led to understand that everything was kind of up in the air.”- Savannah Eccles Johnston

What if the story of American independence didn’t actually begin with Jefferson at his writing desk? What if long before the Declaration of Independence, more than a hundred towns, counties, militias, and even grand juries had already taken matters into their own hands and declared themselves free of Britain?

In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon uncover the astonishing world of forgotten declarations that came before July 4, 1776.

Savannah and Matthew trace how these early statements emerged from every corner of American life: Massachusetts town meetings, South Carolina grand juries, militia battalions in Pennsylvania, and even groups like the New York Mechanics Union. These weren’t fringe ideas. They were the building blocks of a national identity forming from the bottom up. Long before Congress acted, Americans were already asserting natural rights, condemning monarchy, and proclaiming themselves a new people.

They also walk through the most famous example, the Virginia Declaration of Rights, written by George Mason, whose language helped inspire both Jefferson and the later Bill of Rights. Along the way, they explore why virtue, frugality, temperance, and justice were once considered essential political principles, and how Americans gradually shifted from moral to material thinking in the Progressive Era.

This episode reveals a powerful truth: America wasn’t created by one declaration. It was created by hundreds of voices speaking the same political language long before the nation was officially born.

In This Episode

• (00:00) Introduction
• (00:52) The Quill Project and early declarations
• (01:25) Season of declaring independence
• (02:31) Who issued declarations?
• (03:31) Examples of local declarations
• (04:43) Massachusetts town declarations
• (05:51) Elements of declarations
• (07:48) Declaration as national restatement
• (08:46) Virginia Declaration of Rights
• (10:41) Philosophical statements and rights
• (11:02) Virginia Declaration’s enduring language
• (12:44) Virtue and state constitutions
• (16:56) Virtue’s decline in the Progressive Era
• (19:23) Common elements in all declarations
• (20:09) What does declaration writing say about America
• (21:35) Federal character and consensus building
• (22:16) Distinctly American rights and traditions
• (23:03) Conclusion and further resources

Notable Quotes

• (00:44) “Politico estimated that there are over 100 such declarations, but now we have them all in one location.”— Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (03:37) “There's a grand jury indictment in Charleston, the 23rd of April in 1776, that declares that the local government is, in the opinion of the local government, the American colonies are independent.” — Matthew Brogdon
• (05:40) “Thomas Jefferson says, the Declaration is just a statement of the American mind. And quite literally, that's what it is.”— Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (07:25) “You should really think of these like a list of elements. Grievances. Independence. Form of government. Statement of political principles.” — Matthew Brogdon
• (08:25) “So who really is the spirit of America, Massachusetts? Is it you or is it North Carolina? I'm going for Massachusetts.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (09:22) “That all men are by nature equally free and independent and have certain inherent rights...That's just the philosophical statement of the Declaration of Independence in a little clunkier form.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (23:03) “Let's end with that line that these declarations, both the National Declaration and the State Declarations, the local declaration, the Association declarations, are what constituted America.” — Matthew Brogdon

Did you know the man who wrote Common Sense, the pamphlet that inspired Americans to fight for independence, died alone with only six mourners at his funeral? In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon unpack the fascinating and tragic story of Thomas Paine, a man who helped spark the Revolution but couldn’t find a home in the nation he helped create.

They follow Paine’s incredible journey from a struggling English immigrant to one of the most gifted writers of his generation, standing shoulder to shoulder with Franklin, Jefferson, and Hamilton whose words gave the colonies a sense of identity and purpose. Common Sense and The American Crisis didn’t just rally troops; they shaped what it meant to be American. But the same bold, uncompromising spirit that made him a hero would also turn him into an outcast.

Savannah and Matthew trace how Paine’s time in France, his open attacks on George Washington, and his controversial book The Age of Reason, where he challenged organized religion, left him alienated and forgotten. Was he a patriot or just a perpetual revolutionary? This episode dives into that question and reminds us how someone can be absolutely right for their moment in history yet completely lost in their own time.

In This Episode

• (00:00) Introduction
• (00:17) Thomas Paine’s early life and arrival in America
• (01:02) Paine’s early career in America and Common Sense
• (01:24) Impact and success of Common Sense
• (01:59) Why Common Sense was so powerful
• (02:26) Paine’s attack on monarchy and hereditary rule
• (04:13) Biblical arguments against monarchy
• (05:15) Paine’s writing style and rhetorical skill
• (06:40) The case for American independence and identity
• (09:31) Immigrants and the American identity
• (10:31) Paine and the naming of the United States
• (11:28) Speculation on Paine and the Declaration of Independence
• (11:41) America’s duty and revolutionary purpose
• (12:17) Providence, history, and revolutionary ideals
• (13:07) American vs. French revolutionary ideals
• (14:38) Common Sense’s public reception and influence
• (15:38) Copyright, authors’ rights, and Paine’s finances
• (16:14) The American Crisis and its impact
• (18:36) Paine’s decline and involvement in the French Revolution
• (20:08) Paine’s imprisonment and rescue
• (24:17) Paine’s break with Washington and controversial writings
• (25:35) The Age of Reason and alienation from America
• (27:01) Paine’s radical ideas on property and universal income
• (29:10) Paine’s legacy: revolutionary vs. patriot
• (32:23) Lessons from Paine’s life and death

Notable Quotes

• (02:26) “Paine is an excellent writer. I mean, he's got a claim to being one of the most talented writers of the founding in a generation that boasted Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and Gouverneur Morris and Alexander Hamilton.." — Matthew Brogdon
• (02:46) "I think he has a way of identifying the sort of core arguments, the core complaints. I mean, he's anticipating, in many ways, the argument of the declaration, because he's identifying the principal target as monarchy." — Matthew Brogdon
• (04:18) “He uses kind of a biblical argument against monarchy, which is very common in this day to do. But given the fact that he doesn't believe in the Bible, this is an interesting thing for him to do.”— Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (06:18) "The great joke of monarchy is that it so often gives us an ass for a lion. You know, you start out with a lion and then you wind up with the kids or just not what they ought to be." — Matthew Brogdon
• (10:33) "Thomas Paine is, in some quarters, credited with creating the name United States of America." — Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (20:02) "T

How did the Americans go from loyal British subjects to full-blown revolutionaries? Were the British really that bad, or were the colonists simply overreacting?

In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon unpack the long and escalating list of grievances that transformed loyal British subjects into determined revolutionaries.

Moving beyond the myths of the Boston Tea Party, they trace a history of constitutional conflict, from the Proclamation of 1763 and the Stamp Act to the Boston Massacre. The conversation reveals how British attempts to reassert control, such as closing the Boston Harbor and dissolving local legislatures, were seen not as legitimate governance but as a fundamental attack on a 150-year tradition of American self-rule.

Discover the compelling "Dominion Theory" that American colonists advanced as a peaceful alternative to independence, and explore the pivotal moment when Britain's heavy-handed response to protest united the colonies and made revolution inevitable. If you've ever wondered whether the Founders were justified in their rebellion, this episode provides the evidence.

Tune in to explore how real grievances, not reckless rebellion, sparked the birth of American independence.

In This Episode

• (00:00) Introduction
• (00:44) Reading the declaration’s grievances
• (02:14) First Continental Congress and the Declaration of Resolves
• (04:29) Second Continental Congress and taking up arms
• (06:36) Lexington and Concord: the first shots
• (08:49) Colonial grievances as reactions to British actions
• (09:25) Colonial-British relations before the French and Indian War
• (10:54) The French and Indian War and its aftermath
• (11:11) Proclamation of 1763 and colonial expansion
• (12:41) New taxes: Sugar Act, Stamp Act, Townshend Acts
• (13:44) Homespun movement and boycotts
• (15:54) Boston Massacre and escalating tensions
• (16:34) The Tea Act and the Boston Tea Party
• (18:37) Internal colonial debate and Sons of Liberty
• (20:36) British reaction: the Intolerable Acts
• (21:39) Impact of the Intolerable Acts on colonial unity
• (22:34) Suspension of local governments and trial rights
• (24:13) Quartering of troops and widespread alarm
• (25:37) The Quebec Act and religious tensions
• (25:58) Why the Intolerable Acts were the breaking point
• (28:11) Dominion theory and alternative constitutional proposals
• (31:00) Missed opportunities for reconciliation
• (33:03) British conduct during the war
• (34:04) Conclusion: Were the British really that bad

Notable Quotes

• (03:21) “The keeping of standing armies in these colonies in times of peace, without the consent of the legislature of that colony, is against the law.” — Matthew
• (06:48) “ General Gage... sent out from Boston a large detachment of his army, who made an unprovoked assault on the inhabitants at Lexington.” — Matthew
• (13:56) “They would all meet in these spinning clubs and make homespun clothes and really shame other people who were buying any British-made goods.” — Savannah
• (16:07) “The propaganda wheels are turning. The idea is not only are they taxing us, but now they’re actually shooting us.” — Savannah
• (21:43) “The effect of this is that Boston’s going to starve. It’s a trade economy. You close Boston Harbor, you destroy the economy.” — Savannah
• (33:13) “They wound up sending German mercenaries, the Hessians to fight on their behalf, and this actually results in widespread sexual violence against American women.” — Matthew
• (34:04) “So to answer the question, were the British really that bad? Yes. Yes, they were.” — Savannah

Have you ever wondered where America’s revolutionary ideas really came from? Was it the genius of the Founders? What if the story of the Constitution didn’t begin in Philadelphia in 1776, but in colonial homes, small-town churches, and the stubborn belief that no one has the right to rule another?

In this episode of This Constitution, Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon trace the folk origins of American self-government. Through the voices of farmers, ministers, and everyday colonists, they uncover how the principles of liberty and equality were not imported from Europe’s philosophers but born from generations of lived experience.

From the self-written laws of the early colonies to the fiery courage of men like Captain Levi Preston, who famously said, “We always had governed ourselves, and we always meant to,” this conversation reveals that America’s Revolution was not just a political one. It was deeply personal.

If you think the Declaration of Independence was the start of freedom’s story, think again. This episode examines how the American spirit of self-rule was already alive, thriving, and waiting to be documented.

In This Episode

• (00:18) Introduction to discussion topic
• (00:55) Captain Levi Preston and folk origins
• (02:13) Colonial self-government traditions
• (04:53) 150 years of self-government
• (06:14) Cultural and political ties to Britain
• (07:16) Influence of American colonies on Britain
• (08:58) Speculation on the empire’s future
• (09:39) Radical ideas: No man has a right to rule another
• (10:32) Sam Whittemore’s story and individual action
• (11:26) “A man can stand up” – Johnny Tremain reference
• (13:41) The principle of equality and self-government
• (14:48) Folk origins and pervasiveness of the idea
• (15:26) Contradictions: Slavery and self-government
• (17:28) Revolutionary spread of equality
• (18:10) Inherited and revolutionary aspects
• (19:25) Washington’s change and sentiment revolution
• (20:27) Twin dynamics: Inheritance and improvement
• (22:20) Is self-government core to American identity?
• (22:28) Tocqueville: Freedom and religion
• (24:19) Pragmatic wisdom in the Declaration
• (24:33) Recap and folk origins summary

Notable Quotes

• (01:43) “What we meant in going for those redcoats was this. We always had governed ourselves and we always meant to. They didn’t mean we should.” — Captain Levi Preston
• (01:57) “The folk origin of the Declaration, if you will, is to preserve the traditional way of life, which is just to govern yourself, just to be in charge of yourself.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (05:41) “It’s tempting to think of revolution as we start off as British colonies and we gradually become American. Actually, the colonies were very distant, very separate, and very independent from Great Britain in the 17th century.” — Matthew Brogdon
• (06:57) “It’s kind of like you’ve been ignored by your parents and now you’re 17 and suddenly they want to be your parents again, and now you’re ready to be independent.” — Savannah
• (11:19) “No man has a right to rule another. And you actually brought this up before the podcast, this idea of a man’s right to stand up.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston
• (12:34) “We’re fighting so that a man can stand up.” — Matthew Brogdon quoting James Otis
• (22:30) “The distinctive thing that Americans did, that no one had done in republican societies before us, was we combined the spirit of freedom and the spirit of religion.” — Matthew Brogdon
• (24:40) “The idea of self-government is not new with the Declaration. You said earlier that people didn’t read the Declaration and go, oh really? That’s good to know. No, they already knew this.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

What if the American Revolution didn’t begin in the halls of Congress, but in the pews of colonial churches?

In this episode of This Constitution, hosts Savannah Eccles Johnston and Matthew Brogdon uncover the spiritual and intellectual fire that helped ignite the Revolution. Before muskets were fired at Lexington and Concord, preachers across New England were already preparing their congregations for rebellion, not just politically but theologically.

From the sermons of Reverend Jonas Clark to the democratic church governance of the Puritans, and from Jonathan Mayhew’s biblical case for resistance to tyranny to Peter Muhlenberg’s dramatic call to arms, Savannah and Matthew trace how America’s revolution was born in the pulpit long before it was fought on the battlefield.

Together, they explore how this Black-Robed Regiment of clergymen bridged faith and politics, shaping the moral vocabulary of liberty that defined the nation’s founding.

In This Episode

• (00:17) Introduction and overview of “The Black Robed Regiment”
• (00:53) Reverend Jonas Clark and the Battle of Lexington
• (04:37) Puritan origins of political liberty and separation of church and state
• (07:14) How congregational church governance shaped early democracy
• (10:21) Thomas Hooker, Connecticut, and the first written constitution
• (17:00) Jonathan Mayhew’s sermon and the theology of rebellion
• (23:19) Samuel Cook’s fearless sermon after the Boston Massacre
• (27:29) Tocqueville, Frederick Douglass, and the moral force of the pulpit
• (32:58) John Witherspoon and Peter Muhlenberg — faith in action
• (38:06) Takeaway: The Revolution began in the pews

Notable Quotes

(00:08:44) “Democratic governance in America didn’t begin in politics. It began in the church.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

(00:24:45) “The bravery it took for Samuel Cook to stare down the loyal governor and call him a tyrant… that’s a different kind of courage.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

(00:25:09) “People say religion and politics should be kept separate. But that view ignores our founding. Religion was the spark.” — Savannah Eccles Johnston

(00:20:36) “If obedience to rulers who govern on God’s behalf is obedience to God, then obedience to a tyrant would be obedience to the devil.” — Matthew Brogdon

(00:23:40) “It’s a dangerous thing when theology fuels revolution, but without it, we wouldn’t have political progress.” — Matthew Brogdon

(00:27:55) “Religion in America has always shaped politics—not through force, but through conscience.” — Matthew Brogdon