Welcome to episode #1018 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation).

At a moment when burnout is normalized and productivity is still measured by hours rather than impact, the five-day workweek is starting to look less like a foundation of modern life and more like an outdated design choice. Joe O'Connoris the CEO of Work Time Revolution and one of the world's leading architects of the four-day workweek, having designed and led large-scale pilots across multiple countries, industries and organizational types. His work sits at the intersection of labor economics, organizational culture and performance design, helping companies rethink how work actually gets done in a knowledge-based, AI-accelerated economy. Joe has advised governments, nonprofits and private-sector leaders on how to redesign work in ways that improve employee well-being while maintaining (or increasing) organizational performance, challenging deeply held assumptions about time, output and commitment. His new book, Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek (with co-author Jared Lindzon), brings together research, real-world case studies and global experimentation to argue that the five-day workweek is neither inevitable nor optimal. Joe shows how reducing work time can sharpen focus, improve equity and force organizations to confront outdated productivity metrics built for an industrial era. He also examines how AI is accelerating the need for new work models, exposing the inefficiencies of activity-based measurement and pushing leaders to define productivity in terms of outcomes, not presence. Grounded in data yet pragmatic about cultural resistance, Joe's perspective positions the four-day workweek not as an employee concession, but as a competitive advantage for organizations willing to rethink the rules of work before the market forces them to. Enjoy the conversation…

• Running time: 55:55.
• Hello from beautiful Montreal.
• Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts.
• Listen and subscribe over at Spotify.
• Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel.
• Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn.
• Check out ThinkersOne.
• Here is my conversation with Joe O'Connor.
• Do More In Four - Why It's Time For A Shorter Workweek.
• Work Time Revolution.
• Jared Lindzon.
• Follow Joe on LinkedIn.

Chapters:

(00:00) - The Evolution of the Work Week.
(02:57) - Rethinking Productivity in the Age of AI.
(05:50) - Work-Life Balance: A Modern Dilemma.
(09:09) - The Four-Day Work Week: A Societal Aspiration.
(12:08) - AI's Impact on Work Structures.
(15:03) - Cultural Dynamics in Work Environments.
(17:58) - Challenges in Implementing Change.
(21:09) - Market Forces and the Future of Work.
(29:56) - The Evolution of the Four-Day Work Week.
(35:30) - Measuring Productivity in a New Work Model.
(42:15) - Cultural Dynamics and Leadership in the Four-Day Work Week.
(48:55) - AI's Role in Shaping Future Work Models.
(53:22) - Gender Equality and Flexibility in the Workplace.

Welcome to episode #1017 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation).

At a time when technology promises limitless capability yet leaves so many people mentally depleted, the question is no longer whether digital tools are powerful, but whether we know how to live with them. Paul Leonardi is a leading expert on digital transformation, the future of work, and organizational networks, with more than two decades of research and advisory work focused on how technology reshapes collaboration, innovation, and human behavior. A professor at the University of California, Santa Barbara, where he holds the Duca Family Endowed Chair and chairs the Department of Technology Management, Paul has advised Fortune 500 companies, startups, and nonprofits on navigating the people side of technological change. His work has shaped global conversations, translating rigorous research into practical frameworks leaders can actually use. His latest book, Digital Exhaustion - Simple Rules For Reclaiming Your Life, confronts a growing paradox of modern work and life: technologies that make everything possible are also wearing us down. Drawing on years of research and real-world observation, Paul explains why digital exhaustion isn't simply about screen time, but about constant task switching, inference-making in data-saturated environments, and the emotional toll of being perpetually reachable. He examines how capitalist incentives and addictive design amplify fatigue, why generational differences don't offer immunity, and how the collapse of clear boundaries between work, home, and identity has created a new baseline of psychological strain. Rather than advocating withdrawal or digital detoxes, Paul offers a more realistic path rooted in intentionality, clearer norms, and conscious choices about which tools deserve our attention. His work reframes exhaustion not as personal failure, but as a systemic condition that can be managed through better design, better habits, and a more humane relationship with technology. Enjoy the conversation…

• Running time: 1:02:56.
• Hello from beautiful Montreal.
• Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts.
• Listen and subscribe over at Spotify.
• Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel.
• Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn.
• Check out ThinkersOne.
• Here is my conversation with Paul Leonardi.
• Digital Exhaustion - Simple Rules For Reclaiming Your Life.
• The Digital Mindset.
• Follow Paul on LinkedIn.

Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Digital Exhaustion.
(02:48) - The Dark Side of Technology.
(06:13) - The Role of Capitalism in Digital Overwhelm.
(09:00) - Generational Perspectives on Technology.
(11:55) - The Search for Baselines in Digital Interaction.
(14:54) - The Psychological and Physical Aspects of Exhaustion.
(17:46) - Addiction to Technology.
(20:55) - Strategies for Managing Digital Tools.
(23:52) - The Complexity of Productivity in the Digital Age.
(26:51) - The Future of AI and Digital Interaction.
(32:37) - The Data Arms Race and Human Representation.
(34:58) - The Shift from Attention to Intimacy Economy.
(38:02) - Default Urgency and Social Norms in Communication.
(42:19) - The Power of Intentional Response.
(46:00) - Attention Span: Short vs. Long.
(53:02) - The Joy of Missing Out vs. Fear of Missing Out.
(56:35) - Parenting in the Age of Social Media.

Welcome to episode #1016 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation).

At a moment when artificial intelligence is reshaping not just how markets operate but how people think, feel, decide and connect, understanding the human consequences of that shift has become essential. Mark Schaefer is a keynote speaker, educator, strategist, and a voice in modern marketing, with more than three decades of experience spanning global sales, public relations and brand strategy. He is a faculty member at Rutgers University. Mark's latest book, How AI Changes Your Customers - The Marketing Guide To Humanity's Next Chapter, extends his body of work by examining how AI is quietly rewiring consumer psychology, trust, agency, empathy, and belonging (be sure to check out his other books). Rather than focusing on algorithms or tools, Mark explores how customers are becoming more machine-assisted, less patient, more dependent on automation, and increasingly hungry for meaning and connection in a world optimized for efficiency. He argues that curiosity, art, and human connection are strategic advantages rather than soft ideals. Grounded in research, lived experience, and cultural observation, his work challenges marketers and leaders to rethink relevance, rethink loyalty, and rethink what it means to serve customers whose decisions are increasingly shaped by machines. At its core, Mark's perspective reframes AI not as a threat to humanity, but as a force that exposes what only humans can still do well…if they choose to lean into it. Enjoy the conversation…

• Running time: 1:06:07.
• Hello from beautiful Montreal.
• Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts.
• Listen and subscribe over at Spotify.
• Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel.
• Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn.
• Check out ThinkersOne.
• Here is my conversation with Mark Schaefer.
• Book Mark for your next meeting on ThinkersOne.
• How AI Changes Your Customers - The Marketing Guide To Humanity's Next Chapter.
• Check out his other books.
• Read Mark's Blog.
• Follow Mark on LinkedIn.

Chapters:

(00:00) - Introduction to Mark Schaefer and AI's Impact.
(03:00) - The Dual Nature of AI: Exciting and Terrifying.
(06:09) - Cultural Shifts and AI's Influence on Humanity.
(08:53) - Curiosity and Learning in the Age of AI.
(12:08) - The Role of AI in Content Creation.
(14:57) - Art, Tools, and the Essence of Creativity.
(17:54) - The Illusion of Intimacy in AI.
(21:05) - Navigating the Attention vs. Intimacy Economy.
(23:54) - The Future of AI and Human Connection.
(37:13) - Cultural Perspectives on AI and Work.
(39:06) - AI Sovereignty and Global Implications.
(41:23) - The Human Element in AI and Marketing.
(43:42) - The Challenge of Authenticity in AI Content.
(45:52) - Navigating Trust in a Digital Age.
(49:20) - Generational Differences in Trust and Truth.
(53:02) - The Role of Curiosity in the Age of AI.
(56:46) - The Future of Trust and AI in Business.
(01:01:40) - The Impact of AI on Human Connection.
(01:03:59) - Embracing AI for Positive Change.