C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher at the University of Utah, a former food writer for the Los Angeles Times, a rock climber, and one of the world's leading thinkers on the philosophy of games. His new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game, argues that games are the defining art form of our era, and that the scoring systems that make them so joyful turn quietly destructive when institutions and apps wield them instead. In this conversation, Zoë and Brendan talk with CT about why ultrarunning is a game in the deepest philosophical sense, his concept of value capture and why it explains your relationship with Strava better than you'd like, what carbon plates and trekking poles reveal about game design, and why Bernard Suits, the philosopher who defined play as "voluntarily taking on unnecessary obstacles", thought games might literally be the meaning of life. Also: fly fishing pickup artists, the shot clock, elite yo-yoing, and Zoë's Smash Mouth Strava segment situation.

This episode is brought to you by Running Warehouse, the best place to find shoes, kit, and gear from top brands, with honest reviews and filters that actually help.

Our featured race is the Baker Trail Ultra Challenge, a 50-mile point-to-point through the Cook Forest stretches of the North Country Trail in Western Pennsylvania with 6,200 feet of climbing and a three-part commemorative medal — complete all three sections and you get the full set. Registration closes August 28. Sign up at UltraSignup.com.

The Trailhead is part of the UltraSignup Podcast Network.

Pavel Cenkl is a climate writer, ultrarunner, and Dean of Academics at Prescott College who has run hundreds of miles across Iceland, Scandinavia, and the Arctic through his project Climate Run. He grew up in the White Mountains, worked the AMC huts, started one of the first collegiate trail running teams in the U.S., and built a master's program combining movement, environmental philosophy, and ecology.

In this conversation, Zoë and Brendan talk with Pavel about what happens when you push yourself to the edge of exhaustion in landscapes that are literally shifting beneath your feet — disappearing glaciers, the vulnerability of being utterly alone in midnight sun, why "resilience over resistance" is a better framework for running and life, and the moment he screamed so loud on day three of his Iceland crossing that he scared a goose into flight and accidentally had a paradigm shift.

This episode is brought to you by Precision Fuel and Hydration, use code TRAILHEAD26 for 15% off at PrecisionHydration.com.

Our featured race is the White Lake Ultras on May 2nd in Tamworth, New Hampshire, a two-mile lakefront loop where you pick your poison: 6, 12, or 24 hours. Costumes encouraged. Register at UltraSignup.com.

The Trailhead is part of the UltraSignup Podcast Network.

Christie Aschwanden is a New York Times bestselling author, former lead science writer at FiveThirtyEight, and one of the sharpest science journalists working today. She's also a former elite Nordic skier for Team Rossignol and a national collegiate cycling champion, so when she set out to investigate the multibillion-dollar recovery industry for her book Good to Go, she brought both a scientist's rigor and an athlete's bullshit detector.

In this episode, Zoë and Brendan talk to Christie about why cold plunges might actually delay your recovery, how your sleep tracker could be making your sleep worse, and why the most effective recovery strategies are boring, cheap, and unsexy. They dig into the rise of the "recovery industrial complex", from Tom Brady's infrared pajamas to cryotherapy chambers that NBA teams bought just because other teams had one, and what the research actually says about inflammation, ibuprofen, HRV, and the post-workout "window" myth.

Christie also makes a compelling case for radical acceptance, situational awareness for your body, and trusting your own perceptions over your Garmin readiness score. Plus: the beer mile, knitting as recovery, and why pizza might be the most underrated performance fuel.