In this episode of The Return, hosts Jordan Mattox and Dustin Maddox sit down with theologian and author Dr. A.J. Swoboda for a wide-ranging conversation about slow theology, deconstruction, and what faithful reconstruction actually requires.

Using vivid metaphors—from chemotherapy and butter to the Garden of Eden and Sabbath—A.J. argues that doubt, when handled carefully, can be a form of healing rather than harm. He explores why modern churches often rush belief while failing to cultivate depth, virtue, and restraint, and how this impatience contributes to rapid deconstruction on the back end.

The conversation moves through some of the biggest questions facing post-evangelical Christians today:

• How do we distinguish intentional slowness from spiritual stasis?

• Why do mystery and restraint matter more than airtight answers?

• What role should churches play in guiding people through doubt rather than shielding them from it?

• How have apologetics sometimes undermined faith by prioritizing certainty over character?

Jordan, Dustin, and A.J. also discuss Sabbath as a formative posture, the dangers of fast conversions, the limits of Enlightenment-style apologetics, and what an “anti-fragile” Christian formation might look like—especially for children and young people.

The episode closes with a reflection on grace, permission, and hospitality, and a powerful book recommendation for those tentatively considering a return to faith after walking away. This is a conversation for anyone who believes reconstruction is not about finding faster answers, but about learning how to live faithfully, patiently, and humbly in the presence of mystery.

In this episode of The Return, hosts Jordan Mattox and Dustin Maddox sit down with pastor, writer, and theologian Jonny Morrison for a deep conversation about deconstruction, reconstruction, and the environments that help or hinder spiritual return. Morrison reflects on his own faith journey, the pressures of evangelical performance culture, and the internal unraveling that many experience when inherited frameworks can no longer sustain real life. Together, they explore why authentic reconstruction requires hospitable communities—churches where questions, disagreement, and theological diversity are not only tolerated but welcomed. Morrison argues that environments defined by certainty, control, or conformity leave little room for the wounded or the wary to heal, and he offers an alternative vision of the church as a place of curiosity, safety, and shared humanity. For anyone navigating deconstruction or hoping to build a more spacious faith community, this conversation offers both challenge and hope.

Jonny's Website

Purchase Jonny's Books

In this episode, Jordan and Dustin sit down with Nate Yoder, a former Mennonite pastor and bishop whose journey spans rural Ohio, Canada, and California — and travels through some of the hardest questions a person of faith can face. Nate shares how his understanding of calling, community, and belief has evolved through church politics, cross-cultural ministry, and the profound grief of losing a child.

This conversation explores deconstruction and reconstruction not as a crisis, but as an ongoing process of growth. Together, the three discuss brave honesty in spiritual life, how to stay grounded when institutions disappoint, and why the core of Christian faith still comes back to one thing: love God and love others.

Reflective, vulnerable, and anchored in lived experience, this episode invites listeners to consider what remains when faith is tested—and how to rebuild something authentic, compassionate, and resilient.

Dr. Shawn Beaty, head pastor of Clovis Hills Community Church, joins Dustin and Jordan to discuss a commonly discussed topic for those in and outside of religion: hypocrisy. Whether the hypocrisy takes place on a stage or interpersonal relationships, it can cause people to question religion, but also more broadly questions aout what religion is here to do: if Christians do not differ in their actions from non-religious, what does that say about the claims about Christianity power to change people. Shawn, Dustin, and Jordan dig into these topics and more.

Dustin and Jordan are joined by Dr. David Tatum, who completed his PhD in Theology and Philosophy at the University of Birmingham and now teaches at Fresno Pacific University, to discuss the concept of hell, why it leads people to deconstruct, the history and landscape of the ideas about it, and how to think about reintegration where hell still remains a central tenet for many.

On today's episode of The Return, Dustin and Jordan are joined by Karen Huckaby, LMFT, who started a therapy practice called The Reclaim geared around working with people with experiences of religious abuse and spiritual trauma.

The Reclaim: A Therapy Collective Website

On today's episode, Dustin and Jordan share some book recommendations that have found helpful and believe might help you on your religious reconstruction journey.

Jordan's Recommendations:

1. Believe: Why Everyone Should Be Religious Ross Douthat

2. After: A Doctor Explores What Near-Death Experiences Reveal About Life and Beyond Bruce Greyson, MD

3. Septology Jon Fosse, translated by Damion Searls

Dustin's Recommendations

1. When Everything's on Fire: Faith Forged from the Ashes Brian Zahnd

2. Centered-Set Church: Discipleship and Community Without Judgmentalism Mark D. Baker

In the second in a series of episodes on the causes of people's religious deconstruction, Dustin and Jordan discuss one of biggest stumbling blocks for Jordan but many other religious people as well: the reality of a plurality of competing religious traditions in our world. In this episode, they discuss the various ways to think about and conceptualize about these other religious traditions: exclusivism, pluralism, and inclusivism.

If you have questions or are interested in sharing your story, please email us at thereturnreconstructionpodcast@gmail.com