Most legal AI conversations happen in the abstract. Not for Justine Campbell, Chief Legal Officer at National Grid.

National Grid runs the electricity and gas transmission networks across the UK and the US, and literally keeps the lights on. In this episode, Justine joins PERSUIT COO Michelle Landy to talk about what AI adoption actually looks like when your industry is heavily regulated, your customers can't opt out, and the margin for error is nil.

They cover:

• Why speed is the wrong metric for legal transformation in a regulated business

• How National Grid is piloting AI tools — and the non-negotiable guardrails around them

• Running hackathons with external law firms to co-design solutions

• What "right-sizing" outside counsel relationships really means

• The capability that will separate leading legal departments over the next few years

If you work in legal, compliance, or operations in energy, financial services, healthcare, or any other heavily regulated sector — this one's for you.

The world's top in-house teams aren't just managing their firms — they're mobilizing value. PERSUIT.

Lead with value.

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What does it take to stand out, stay human, and lead with authenticity in legal marketing? 💡

In this episode of The PERSUIT Podcast, host Alex Bullington sits down with Rachael Shilling, Director of Marketing & Client Services at Liskow, for an honest, energizing conversation about:

🚀 Standing Out in a Crowded Market How a 90-year-old regional firm competes with global giants by doubling down on its energy-sector roots.

💼 Rethinking RFPs & Client Value Why Rachael loves RFPs, how she first discovered PERSUIT, and how data-driven transparency helps firms win on expertise—not size.

🤖 AI, Empathy & the Future of Legal Work Rachael’s refreshing take on what AI can do—and what it can’t replace: trust, empathy, and real connection.

Subscribe to The PERSUIT Podcast to stay ahead of the innovation curve in legal and lead with value.

The world's top in-house teams aren't just managing their firms — they're mobilizing value. PERSUIT.

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It's a special crossover episode of the PERSUIT Podcast this week as we re-play Jim Delkousis' recent interview with Mary O'Carroll on the Pearls On Gloves Off podcast.

The two cover a lot of ground, including:

• Leading legal like a business

• The AI reckoning of the billable hour

• The hot topic of reverse auctions

Big thank yous to Mary and her team for letting us share this episode. You can subscribe to Pearls on Gloves Off on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.

The world's top in-house teams aren't just managing their firms — they're mobilizing value. PERSUIT.

Lead with value.

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From re-thinking the billable hour with Effective Fee Arrangements to building trust through transparency, Chris shares how clients and law firms can work smarter—not harder. Discover why the right people, the right data, and the right conversations are key to driving change in the legal industry.

The world's top in-house teams aren't just managing their firms — they're mobilizing value.

PERSUIT.

Lead with value.

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In this episode, Chris Perry, VP of Sales at Apperio, joins the PERSUIT Podcast to unpack why accruals are such a persistent challenge in legal ops—and how to fix them.

From inaccurate estimates to strained client–firm communication, accruals impact far more than just finance.

Key takeaways:

• Why hourly billing makes accruals inherently messy

• The pitfalls of relying on law firm estimates

• How Apperio uses actual unbilled data to improve accuracy

• The role of clear communication and expectation setting

• Why value-based pricing could be a game changer

Listen in to learn how to rethink your accruals process. Learn more about Apperio and PERSUIT, book a demo today at http://www.persuit.com

The world's top in-house teams aren't just managing their firms — they're mobilizing value.

PERSUIT.

Lead with value.

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In this episode of the PERSUIT podcast, host Chris Albrecht speaks with Maui Guevero, Senior Manager for the Legal Advisory Team at PERSUIT. They discuss the evolving landscape of client-firm relationships, the intricacies of law firm pricing strategies, and the critical role of communication in legal services.

The conversation also delves into the impact of AI on legal work and how it is reshaping the dynamics between clients and firms. Insights from the PERSUIT Exchange event highlight the need for proactive communication and collaboration to enhance these relationships.

Topics include:

• The client-firm relationship is often tense due to pricing pressures.

• Law firms can adopt bespoke pricing strategies tailored to client needs.

• Clients should articulate their priorities to foster collaboration.

• Clients are becoming more informed about AI capabilities.

• Both firms and clients need to initiate communication proactively.

  
  

Find Maui on Linkedin at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kmcge/

The world's top in-house teams aren't just managing their firms — they're mobilizing value. PERSUIT.

Lead with value.

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Jordan Weinstein, VP of Data & Growth at PERSUIT, shares insights around legal pricing trends for FinServ clients and AFAs, including:

• Do FinServ clients pay less?

• Why have some key cost-driving activities in AFAs plateaued in recent years?

• How can clients and firms take advantage of this research?

• The PERSUIT Podcast delivers deep discussions around the innovations happening in the legal space.

PERSUIT.

Lead with value.

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Dr. Sebastian Lochen, the General Counsel and Head of Compliance at Thyssenkrupp, shares his professional journey within the company, where he began his career in the compliance department in 2011 and rose to lead the legal function in 2021. Throughout the discussion, Dr. Lochen emphasizes the significance of embedding the legal team within the business units to ensure proactive support and early involvement in organizational projects and decisions.

Lochen speaks to the environmental and regulatory challenges Thyssenkrupp faces as it transitions to greener technologies, and how the changing business model, driven by regulatory pressures and economic shifts, requires adaptive strategies from the legal team to provide robust support while also maintaining vigilance over traditional risk areas like antitrust issues.

The two also explore the evolving dynamics between Thyssenkrupp and its external legal advisors. Dr. Lochen discusses the critical role of law firms in providing innovative solutions and leveraging technology to enhance legal service delivery. He emphasizes the importance of a collaborative relationship with external partners to navigate new regulatory landscapes effectively.

04:36 Expansion of Compliance Programs Since 2011

07:36 Diversified Industry Ventures Overview

09:50 Integrating with Business Operations

13:41 Future Challenges: Regulation and Efficiency

18:06 AI Compliance Implementation Strategies

19:48 Evolving Role of Law Firms

24:53 Steel Industry's Green Transition

25:46 Navigating Economic and Legal Changes

29:33 Nurturing Children's Interests through Exploration

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