In Part 2 of our conversation with Rui Ma on The Negotiation podcast, we explore the evolving consumer tech and innovation landscape in China beyond AI. Rui shares her analysis on the rise of local life services, humanoid robotics, and China's dominance in electric vehicles—highlighting the factors propelling growth and the remaining roadblocks.

We also zoom out to explore the broader dynamics between the U.S. and China’s tech ecosystems. Rui discusses rising tensions, how media and policy shape U.S. perceptions of Chinese tech, and whether meaningful collaboration is still possible.

Finally, Rui reflects on the future of China tech and whether she still believes—as she’s said before—that “the next China is China.” Listen for sharp insights, fresh perspectives, and a grounded look at where things might be headed.

Discussion Points:

• The transformation of China’s consumer tech and local life services landscape
• China's rise in the EV market and what’s fueling it
• The state of humanoid robotics in China vs. the U.S.
• U.S. public and governmental attitudes toward Chinese tech
• How geopolitical tensions are creating siloed ecosystems
• The role of Western media in shaping perceptions of Chinese innovation
• Strategies for fostering cooperation and countering bias
• Rui’s long-term outlook for China’s tech sector

In this episode of The Negotiation, we’re joined once again by Jacob Cooke, Co-founder and CEO of WPIC Marketing + Technologies. Jacob walks us through the key insights from WPIC’s latest data report profiling the fastest-growing consumer segments in China’s e-commerce market. Drawing from GMV data across Tmall, JD.com, and Douyin, the report reveals a story of recovery, consumer optimism, and evolving channel strategies.

Jacob kicks off with an overview of China’s current consumption environment, highlighting a return of consumer confidence fueled by government stimulus, higher disposable incomes, and a willingness to spend. He then breaks down performance across platforms, noting the rapid rise of Douyin and Xiaohongshu, and explaining how brands should adapt to a more fragmented, omnichannel landscape.

We then dive into category-specific insights, from the booming beauty and fashion sectors to the rise of experiential consumption, pet care premiumization, and the ongoing expansion of health and wellness products. Jacob also discusses growth in outdoor and active lifestyle categories, with impressive gains in cycling, hiking, and ski gear.

Stay tuned for an insight-packed discussion that challenges the doom-and-gloom narrative and positions China as a dynamic and essential market for global brands.

Discussion Points

• Why consumer confidence is rebounding in China—and what that means for international brands
• Platform performance: Tmall and JD’s staying power vs. Douyin’s rise in social commerce
• Xiaohongshu’s triple-digit growth trajectory and strategic role for brand discovery
• Beauty and fashion trends: science-backed skincare, expressive makeup, men’s grooming
• The suitcase boom: post-pandemic travel + lifestyle trends = experiential consumption
• What’s fueling China’s demand for fish oil, vitamin B, and dietary fiber
• Outdoor gear goes mainstream: cycling, skiing, hiking, and the crossover with fashion
• Premiumization in pet care: what’s behind the $11.2B market
• Rising spend in the mother and baby category despite falling birth rates
• Key takeaways for brands: adopt an omnichannel, data-driven strategy for growth

In this episode of The Negotiation podcast, host Todd Embley is joined by Rui Ma, a distinguished expert with nearly two decades of experience working in technology and finance in the U.S. and China. Rui provides deep insights into the current landscape of AI, focusing particularly on the competitive dynamics between the U.S. and China. She discusses how geopolitical tensions and export controls have impacted China's AI industry and highlights the resilience and adaptability of Chinese AI firms.

Rui shares detailed perspectives on the state of open-source collaboration in China's AI ecosystem compared to the U.S., and explains the significance of emerging players such as DeepSeek. Additionally, she explores the latest AI advancements from major tech giants like Ant Group and Baidu, as well as the rise of innovative startups like Manus. The conversation also touches on practical AI applications within China, guided by Alibaba's strategy of reducing costs and maximizing use cases. Rui concludes with her thoughts on the future of AI in China, offering an insightful outlook on opportunities and challenges ahead.

Listeners should stay tuned for Part 2, where Rui will discuss additional key trends shaping the broader tech landscape in China.

Discussion Points:

· Comparing strengths and weaknesses in the U.S.-China AI race

· Impact of U.S. export controls on China's AI sector

· Open-source collaboration differences between China and the U.S.

· DeepSeek’s rise and its impact on China's AI landscape

· Recent AI advancements from Ant Group and Baidu

· Emerging key players in China's AI industry, including Manus

· AI application trends in China driven by cost reduction and practical utility

· Rui Ma's outlook on China's AI future

Justin Downes returns to The Negotiation podcast to reflect on the recently concluded ski season in China and to discuss his new role in Hokkaido, Japan. With a career dedicated to advancing winter sports in Asia, Justin has been instrumental in the infrastructural development of ski resorts in China, contributing significantly to the country’s readiness for the 2022 Winter Olympics. In this episode, Justin provides an overview of the performance of the skiing season in China, talks about the world's largest indoor skiing resort in Shanghai, and compares the ski markets of China and Japan.

Discussion Points:

• Overview of Axis Leisure Management and its impact on skiing in China.
• Performance insights from the recent ski season in China.
• Details on the world's largest indoor skiing resort in Shanghai and its significance in the growth of the industry.
• The influence of the Asian Winter Games on the popularization of winter sports in China and other Asian countries.
• Assessment of China as a mature or emerging skiing market.
• Comparisons between the skiing industries in China and Japan, highlighting unique aspects and challenges in both markets.

In this episode of The Negotiation podcast, Todd Embley sits down with Peter Park, WPIC’s latest addition in Melbourne and a recognized expert in Australia’s consumer brand sector and the APAC e-commerce landscape. Peter delves into his professional journey, his role at WPIC, and why the firm is an excellent partner for Australian consumer brands, especially in the F&B and health supplements sectors. He shares his insights on the rising trends in these categories. He highlights the untapped potential in markets like South Korea and Vietnam, discussing strategies for Australian brands to make impactful entries into these markets. Additionally, Peter spices up the conversation with an intriguing discussion about the whisky market across APAC.

Discussion Points:

• Peter's professional background and his recent transition to WPIC.
• The role of WPIC in bolstering Australian consumer brands in the APAC region.
• Emerging trends in the F&B and health supplements sectors across APAC.
• Detailed exploration of South Korea as an underrated market for Australian brands.
• Opportunities for Australian brands in Vietnam and strategies for market entry.
• The growing popularity of whisky across APAC and its potential as a market for Australian exporters.

In this episode of The Negotiation podcast, host Todd Embley speaks with Joe Mazur, Senior Analyst at Trivium China, on the complexities of the U.S.-China relationship in the early days of the second Trump administration.
Joe offers a comprehensive overview of the trade measures implemented by the U.S. since Donald Trump's re-election. He analyzes the motives behind the tariffs and their potential to escalate into more aggressive actions. He also analyzes China’s response to U.S. tariffs, which included a series of non-reciprocal measures. Joe explains their strategic significance and implications for future negotiations.
The conversation also touches on recent U.S. restrictions in the semiconductor industry, highlighting the critical role this sector plays in the broader technological conflict between the U.S. and China and the closure of the de minimis exemption for Chinese goods.
Listeners will gain a comprehensive understanding of the current state and potential future of US-China economic relations, the strategic motivations behind recent policies, and the implications for companies from various sectors.

Discussion Points:

• Overview of U.S. trade measures since Trump's reelection and their strategic underpinnings.
• Analysis of China's non-reciprocal countermeasures and their potential strategic goals.
• Impact of U.S. policies on the critical semiconductor industry and the broader tech conflict.
• Insights into the closure of the de minimis exemption for Chinese goods and its significance.
• Discussion on the brief suspension of Chinese packages by the U.S. Postal Service and its implications.

In this episode of The Negotiation podcast, Todd Embley has a captivating conversation with Elyse Ribbons, a seasoned expert in the dynamics of influencer marketing in China. Elyse shares her extensive experience and insights into the unique landscape of social media and influencer engagement in China, highlighting the intricacies of platforms like RedNote (Xiaohongshu) and Douyin.

The discussion opens with Elyse recounting her journey and how she became deeply involved with China, setting the stage for her dive into the digital marketing landscape there. She breaks down the major platforms used for influencer marketing, comparing them to their Western counterparts, and dives deep into the particularities of RED and Douyin, explaining their specific features and the demographics they appeal to.

Elyse discusses the financial aspects of engaging with influencers, including the costs associated with different types of content creation, such as live streaming. She clarifies the distinctions between Key Opinion Leaders (KOLs) and Key Opinion Consumers (KOCs) and offers advice on how brands can select the right influencers to maximize the success of their marketing campaigns.

Notably, Elyse touches on the latest trends in influencer marketing within China and provides her perspective on the future of international brands in the Chinese market amidst US-China tensions. This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to understand the evolving dynamics of influencer marketing in China and how to navigate this complex but rewarding space effectively.

Discussion Points:

• Elyse's personal journey and initial engagement with China.
• Detailed analysis of major Chinese platforms for influencer marketing.
• Specific features and demographics of RED and Douyin.
• Cost considerations in influencer engagements.
• Differences and impacts of KOLs versus KOCs.
• Strategies for selecting the right influencers for marketing campaigns.
• Emerging trends in the influencer marketing sector in China.
• Future outlook for international brands in the Chinese market.

In this episode of the Negotiation Podcast, Todd Embley interviews David Nottingham, the EU General Manager for IPinYou, a leading Chinese martech company. David shares his journey from Southeast Asia to the ad tech world, discussing the unique challenges and opportunities within the Chinese digital ecosystem. He explains the workings of IPinYou, its proprietary technology, and how it compares to Western ad tech platforms. The conversation delves into the paid media landscape in China, the importance of audience data, and the rise of platforms like Xiao Hongxu. David also highlights the competitive nature of advertising in China and the regulatory environment that shapes the industry.

Takeaways

• David Nottingham has been with IPNU for seven years, leveraging his background in Southeast Asia.
• IPNU is a leading Chinese ad tech company with proprietary technology for media buying.
• The Chinese digital ecosystem is closed, requiring tailored ad tech solutions.
• Western companies face challenges entering the Chinese market due to regulations.
• Audience targeting in China relies heavily on device IDs rather than cookies.
• Xiao Hongxu has gained popularity as a social commerce platform in China.
• The competitive landscape in Chinese advertising requires unique data strategies.
• Walled gardens in China limit cross-platform advertising opportunities.
• The Chinese government is regulating super apps to reduce their market power.
• Understanding the nuances of the Chinese market is crucial for successful advertising.