The Making of A Gender Heretic, with Ben Appel

This week, Ben Appel joins me to talk about his new book, Cis White Gay: The Making of a Gender Heretic, a memoir about leaving one kind of cult only to stumble into another. Raised in a rigid Christian community, Ben found refuge in the gay rights movement and, later, the Ivy League—until "allyship" started to look less like solidarity and more like a loyalty oath.

We discuss • Why he chose the deliberately provocative title Cis, White, Gay — and what reactions revealed about current identity politics. • How queer "community" has become increasingly moralized, hierarchical, and policed — and what gets lost when dissent is framed as betrayal. • The difference between taste and taboo — and how aesthetic preferences are now treated as political statements. • Why "representation" has replaced excellence as the highest cultural virtue. • How literary gatekeeping operates today — from publishers and prize committees to informal online watchdogs. • The loneliness of ideological nonconformity in queer and creative circles. • The professional and social costs of questioning orthodoxy — including lost friendships, lost opportunities, and subtle blacklisting.
Guest Bio:
Ben Appel is a writer and commentator whose memoir, Cis White Gay, traces his path from a strict Christian sect to progressive activism—and his break with movement orthodoxy; he's written for outlets like Newsweek, UnHerd, and more, and publishes on Substack. Become a paying subscriber to The Unspeakeasy and get lots of perks, including access to monthly hangouts for Founding Members. https://www.theunspeakablepodcast.com/ I'm teaching a Zoom writing workshop in Memoir and Personal Essay, Jan 6 through Feb 24, 2026. Apply by Dec 5. https://www.theunspeakablepodcast.com/p/next-writing-course-starts-jan-6 The Unspeakeasy 2026 retreat schedule has been announced! https://theunspeakeasy.com/retreats
Order my book, The Catastrophe Hour: Selected Essays, on Amazon or directly from the publisher https://www.nyrb.com/products/the-catastrophe-hour.