Join Matt and Tenille for an exclusive behind-the-scenes chat with Kim Grey and Ruth Nicholls, the dynamic duo co-convening the 2025 Australian Evaluation Conference in Canberra. Discover what's in store when the evaluation community gathers from 15-19 September under the theme "Beyond the Bubble."

Kim and Ruth take us through their thinking on why 'Beyond the Bubble' was the right theme, some background on the exciting lineup of international keynote speakers, and some sneak peaks into the sessions they're excited to see.

We explore the four conference sub-themes - Foundations, Connecting, Cultivating, and Transforming. Listen to hear why the conference isn't just about methods - it's about relationships.

Whether you're seasoned or new to the field, Kim and Ruth share why the magic of evaluation conferences lies in the unexpected connections, the corridor conversations, and the chance to see familiar approaches used in completely new ways.

See the Conference Program and register: https://www.aes25.aes.asn.au/

Learn more about the Australian Evaluation Society, including how to become a member, their professional development program, and more: https://www.aes.asn.au/

In this debut episode of It Depends Podcast, co-hosts Matt Healey and Tenille Moselen dive into the murky middle of evaluation practice—where complexity thrives, answers are rarely black and white, and good questions matter more than quick fixes.

They’re joined by Eleanor Williams, Managing Director of the Australian Centre for Evaluation, for a wide-ranging and thoughtful conversation on evidence, ethics, and embedding evaluation in the heart of public policy. Together, they explore:

• What makes evidence fit for purpose—especially in fast-paced policy environments
• The importance of meaningful relationships between evaluators and commissioners
• The role and realities of quasi-experimental design in the public sector
• Thinking around everyday ethical dilemmas evaluators face.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the tension between rigour, relevance, and real-world constraints. It’s honest, nuanced, and full of insight.

Some of the resources mentioned in the episode are linked below:

• The Australian Centre for Evaluation homepage, and specifically the Commonwealth Evaluation Toolkit
• Relational Commissioning blog post by Eleanor Williams and Skye Trudgett
• The UK Government’s Magenta Book – see including Annex A on different methods for use in evaluations
• The webpage with more on the Australian Public Sector Evaluation Network (APSEN).

You can find out more about First Person Consulting and what we do on our website: www.fpconsulting.com.au.