In this episode, I chat with Daniel Hoyer from Seshat about looking at history through a statistical lens. We discuss the Seshat Databank and his new book, Figuring Out the Past: The 3,495 Vital Statistics that Explain World History.

Let's Stay in Touch!

You can join the conversation in our Facebook Group, the History Fangirl Podcast Community, or come say hi on Instagram!

My Travel Websites

History Fangirl - Culture & History Travel Guides in the USA, Europe, and Beyond

Sofia Adventures - Balkan Travel Blog

Oklahoma Wonders - Travel in Oklahoma & Route 66

The theme music for the podcast is "Places Unseen" by Lee Rosevere.

In this episode, I chat with Eric Halsey from the Bulgarian History  Podcast about the hidden gem of Veliko Tarnovo. This once-important Bulgarian city is one of the most picturesque in Europe, and yet not many outside of Bulgaria know much about it. You can find Eric's podcast here.

Let's Stay in Touch!

You can join the conversation in our Facebook Group, the History Fangirl Podcast Community, or come say hi on Instagram!

More on Veliko Tarnovo:

If you are planning to visit Veliko Tarnovo, here are our Veliko Tarnovo travel guides.

• Things to do in Veliko Tarnovo
• How to Get from Sofia to Veliko Tarnovo
• Best Instagram Spots
• What to Do in Winter

My Travel Websites

History Fangirl - Culture & History Travel Guides in the USA, Europe, and Beyond

Sofia Adventures - Balkan Travel Blog

Oklahoma Wonders - Travel in Oklahoma & Route 66

The theme music for the podcast is "Places Unseen" by Lee Rosevere.

Yes, it's been two years, and for that I'm very sorry! But I'm back with new episodes next week. In the meantime, enjoy this interview on Chernobyl I did a few weeks ago with Darmon Richter, the author of the new book Chernobyl, a Stalker's Guide.

The theme music for the podcast is "Places Unseen" by Lee Rosevere.

On today’s episode of the History Fangirl Podcast, we talk with renowned travel blogger Megan Starr, whom we spoke to a few months back about Kiev. But this week, we’re talking in person, in Kazakhstan, at the site of the memorial to the Great Kazakh Famine, a historical event which not many people know about in the West but looms large in the history of Kazakhstan. And, we both have recovered from the Kazakhstani flu that has been going around, so we’re ready to get rolling!

We’ve talked before about the Great Famine in Ukraine, but similar tragedies hit all over the Soviet region. There were actually two terrible genocides in the region. In 1919, many Kazakhs were killed by a drought. But due to the forced farm collectivization of the nomadic peoples in the region from 1931 to 1933, the Soviet Union ended up killing nearly 2 million people. It’s a terrible story, one not well-known outside the region, but one that everyone should hear.

• [1:57] The memorial in Almaty
• [3:45] What Kazakhstan was like in the 20th century
• [6:59] Why it’s a genocide
• [9:37] About the statue
• [11:34] Life in Kazakhstan after the famine
• [15:10] Why this genocide isn’t as prominent
• [17:54] How Megan fell in love with Almaty, Kazakhstan
• [22:00] What to see in Almaty and in the region
• [27:58] The biggest mistake people make when traveling to Kazakhstan

• Megan Starr
• Megan’s Facebook Group
• Info about the memorial

• stephanie@historyfangirl.com
• https://historyfangirl.com
• Support Stephanie on Patreon

Featuring the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere.

This week’s episode is something a little different. I am in Isyk-Kul, Kyrgyzstan, covering the World Nomad Games, a festival of sports that’s sort of like the Olympics for nomadic peoples. The sports, though, are way more interesting than, say, basketball. My first interview this episode is with the co-captain of the American Kok Boru team (I’ll explain later), and the sports include horse archery, tug of war, arm wrestling and more. I have a whole slew of interviews in this week’s episode, and next week we’ll dive into what makes these games so special, and what importance the history of this event has to the people who play in it.

My first interview is with Garrett, the co-captain of the U.S.’s Kok Boru team, who describes playing in these games as a “wild ride.” Kok Boru is the national sport of Kyrgyzstan, and translates to the Blue Wolf. As Garrett says, it’s not a game, it’s “one of the most intense competitions” you could ever take part in. As he says, it’s essentially rugby on horseback, but it dates back centuries in Kyrgyzstan, and stems from a time when men would chase away wolves who were attacking livestock, and pick up the wolves and toss them from one horse to the other. So yeah, a little different than baseball.

One of the many things that distinguish the World Nomad Games from the Olympics is that it includes intellectual games. Imagine if chess was in the Olympics, that’s the place that the Turkish game of Mangala (mancala in the U.S.) holds in the World Nomad Games. As the competitor I interviewed said, he was drawn to the sport because he could sit down. I also had the opportunity to speak with the president of the Turkish horse archery federation.

One of the American teams I was able to interview were a man and woman who compete in mas wrestling, a sort of tug-of-war competition between two people who grasp a stick, and try to pull their opponent over a board. I also was able to chat with Kyle, a Peace Corps volunteer in Kyrgyzstan, about the cultural traditions of the country. One of the fascinating aspects of the culture that Kyle mentioned is that younger men must approach an older gentleman they encounter and introduce themselves, as a sign of respect. I also got to speak with Ashley, another Peace Corps volunteer, who is actually Kyle’s teammate on the American arm-wrestling team.

The World Nomad Games are an incredible experience, filled with unbelievable characters (as you can tell from my interviews) from all across the country. Whether it’s the Scottish caber tosser who’s skeptical of Americans’ tartans or the Pakistani representative calling for World Peace, it’s an amazing competition. Make sure you tune in next week as we dig into the history of the games.

• [3:05] USA Kok Boru team
• [6:44] Tajikistani game of men and women
• [9:30] Turkish Mangala
• [14:57] Mas wrestling
• [23:29] Pakistani competitors
• [26:45] The Great Britain delegation
• [31:15] Antigua and Barbuda
• [34:21] Iran’s team
• [38:05] USAID representative

• The World Nomad Games
• Stephanie's Kyrgyzstan Travel Advice
• How to Get a Sim Card in Kyrgyzstan

• stephanie@historyfangirl.com
• https://historyfangirl.com
• Support Stephanie on Patreon

Featuring the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere.

More info and photographs for this episode at:

https://historyfangirl.com/the-world-nomad-games/

Last year, Alex Cruikshanks came on the show to talk about Belgrade, a really detailed and wide-ranging episode. And we had such a great time, he’s back again to talk about more recent history in Yugoslavia, specifically the brutal massacre at Srebrenica. Yugoslavia, as anyone who was alive in the 1990s knows, was falling apart in the early part of the decade. The Bosnian War was raging, and in 1995, some 8,000 Bosniaks, mostly men and boys, were killed. What led up to this genocide, how could something like this happen in our recent history, and what has been the fallout since? Alex is the perfect person to about this, not just because of his podcast, but he just made a trip to participate in a peace march in the region.

As Alex told me this episode, in the late 1980s, a sort of coalition-by-default formed as Yugoslavia held elections, as the parties that represented the various ethnic factions of the country won a majority. But they soon realized that all that was holding them together was an anti-Communist stance, so the coalition immediately began dissolving. In a referendum in 1992, Bosnians voted for independence, and in the Spring and Summer of 1992, Serbian nationalists begin staging coups throughout the country, placing Serbs in power, and begin massacring non-Serb populations.

But while all of this was going on, there were pockets where Bosniaks were able to hold off the Serbian nationalists from taking over. One such stronghold was the small town of Srebrenica, which was able to maintain its autonomy for three years. As Alex says, it only had about 6,000 people before the war, but because so many have been killed or expelled throughout the region, it swells to an unsustainable population of 40,000. In 1993 a militia forms in Srebrenica to try to fight back, and the Serbian army takes notice, planning an invasion. But just as that was heating up, UN peacekeepers visited the town, and ended up putting a small force there, keeping the violence at bay for two years.

But in 1995, Slobodan Milosevic decides it’s time to try to shut down the enclaves, and he issues what becomes known as Directive 7, which orders the separation of Srebrenica from the other enclaves and “by planned and well-thought-out combat operations, create an unbearable situation of total insecurity with no hope of further survival or life for the inhabitants of Srebrenica.” That’s about as grim and awful as it gets, but as Alex says, it’s likely Milosevic was not thinking of massacre, but rather starving the residents until they give up. The Serb national army then takes UN peacekeepers as hostages to ward off UN airstrikes, and in July they begin their combat operations in earnest. Unfortunately, the Bosnian militia were not well-trained fighters, and they ended up falling back.

As the Serbian army advanced, many hoped the UN would step in and be able to save the Bosniaks. But many men and boys had a feeling that if they stayed, they would be killed. So they fled, but unfortunately, the Serbs were able to ambush them. It’s a truly horrific story of ethnic cleansing that happened not that long ago. But as Alex and I discuss in this week’s episode, the Bosnian people are actually some of the most liberal and optimistic people we’ve met. It’s an incredible story, and it’s important that we never forget it.

• [1:30] The beginnings of war
• [7:17] Bosniaks able to hold off Serbs
• [12:45] The difference between Croats and Serbs
• [21:09] How the massacre happened
• [35:00] Conditions during the war
• [40:45] How the conflict resolves
• [43:33] The war crimes tribunal
• [51:40] Alex’s trip to Bosnia

• The History of Yugoslavia Podcast
• Belgrade: The Rise of the White City

• stephanie@historyfangirl.com
• https://historyfangirl.com
• Support Stephanie on Patreon

Featuring the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere.

More info and photographs for this episode at:

https://historyfangirl.com/the-massacre-at-srebrenica/

Every city has that one landmark that seems like a tourist trap and practically begs you not to visit. For me, that was the CN Tower in Toronto. I didn’t go near it the first time I visited the city, and the second time, this past July, I planned to steer clear. But it turns out the joke was on me, as the CN Tower is an amazing building with a funny, competitive and ingenious bit of Canadian history. My guest today is Christopher Mitchell, who not only knows a lot about Toronto’s landmark, but is also the co-host of our new podcast, Rick Steves Over Brunch. This is a really fun episode and so Canadian you may find yourself reaching for a hockey stick afterwards.

In the late 1960s and early 1970s, Toronto was growing rapidly, but the skyscrapers that were going up were all about the same height. This began messing with the communications of the city, so lawmakers decided to build something that would literally tower above the skyscrapers to allow reception through. And, as Chris says, they said, “While we’re at it, why don’t we build the largest free-standing structure on the planet?” And so they did, thumbing their noses at America in the process.

Construction of the tower began in 1973, and once they had the functional structure down, they realized they had something that could become a true tourist destination. So they added the iconic structure on the top with the restaurant and the observation tower in 1974. A helicopter, famously named Olga, placed the needle on the top, and on April 2, 1975, the project is complete. On June 26, 1976 the top of the tower is opened to the public, and now it’s visited by somewhere between 1.5 and 2 million people a year.

The one place where Chris and I diverge is whether either of us would do the CN Tower’s “Edge Walk,” where visitors can walk, hands-free, around the top of the tower (while harnessed to the building, of course). It’s a popular new adventure for visitors, and if you’re a thrill-seeker, it’s worth checking out. We also talk about the enormous complex that has risen around the tower, which includes the Rogers Centre, where the Toronto Blue Jays play. We also take a very necessary side trip through what exactly constitutes Canadian cuisine (based on whether the restaurant at the top of the Tower is worth the high prices).

As Chris tells me, Toronto is massive, comprising 20% of Canada’s total population. Some of his suggestions for where to go in Toronto: Visit the incredible Chinatown, which is close to the CN Tower. He also recommends Kensington Market, one of the city’s hipper neighborhoods (and a good destination for anyone interested in weed tourism), and Queen Street West. He also makes a pitch to catch a Blue Jays game thanks to the incredible views if the dome is open. But be forewarned: The product on the field is, as he says, “mediocre at best.”

• [3:23] Intro to Rick Steves Over Brunch
• [5:03] Origins of the CN Tower
• [8:30] What was Toronto like before the CN Tower?
• [15:17] What was the reception when it was built?
• [23:00] How the CN Tower became a tourist destination
• [30:15] The evolution of the CN Tower
• [40:38] What else to see in Toronto

• Traveling Mitch
• Rick Steves Over Brunch
• CN Tower

• stephanie@historyfangirl.com
• https://historyfangirl.com
• Support Stephanie on Patreon

Featuring the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere.

More info and photographs for this episode at:

https://historyfangirl.com/the-strangely-competitive-history-of-the-cn-tower

In the first half of the 20th century, the automobile became a symbol of freedom to American families. Middle-class families able to afford their own car were no longer restricted to train or bus timetables, and the great American road trip was born. But for black Americans, this new freedom collided with old hatred, prejudices and dangers. The road trip’s appeal called to everyone equally, but not everyone was treated equally. African Americans began using “the Green Book,” a guide to places that were friendly to them along their journey. In September, I met Tamiko Harvey, the travel blogger behind Passports and Grub, who actually took her daughter on a family road trip using the Green Book.

Tomiko and I met while touring the Civil Rights Trail in Birmingham, Alabama, where they actually have a Green Book on display there in the Civil Rights Museum. That really sparked her interest in learning more about the book, and she was able to purchase a copy on Amazon. As she says, we’re supposed to be living in a post-racial society, but of course that’s not true. So she wanted to see what it would be like traveling the Green Book today.

As Tomiko says, black people in the early 20th century had to plan out every detail of a road trip. They had to dress a certain way, they had to be sure of what time of day they would be traveling in certain areas, and they had to know their route precisely because a wrong turn could literally be deadly. It was a really planned and methodical process that we don’t even think about now. Black motorists had to think about where they were going to eat, where they were going to get gas, where they could use a restroom. A lot of these travelers were Civil Rights activists or business travelers. Leisure travel was not as prominent as we think of it today.

The book was originally published in 1936 in New York, and as Tomiko says it became a sort of Yellow Pages for black travelers. It outlined friendly restaurants, gas stations, hotels, drug stores and barber shops that were safe during Jim Crow. It came about because Victor Green, the author, was having difficulty traveling. The book was circulated in black establishments, even in hotels and restaurants. And it was marketed with the tagline: “Vacation and recreation without humiliation.” About 15,000 copies a year were sold to black travelers. Brittany told me a great story about brothers divided over the revolution that you have to hear.

Tomiko and her family live outside of Nashville, Tennessee, and when her daughter had to go to Orlando, Florida for a cheering competition, she decided to take the book and see what it was like to travel through those Southern states for black people in the 1930s. As she says, they often had to go an hour or two out of their way just to ensure they were going somewhere safe. A lot of the places on the routes were actually people’s homes, old gas stations or even empty lots now. She said it added something like three hours to their trip to go out of the way. Her story, and the story of the book, is so fascinating. I highly recommend checking out this episode.

• [2:52] How Tomiko became interested in the Green Book
• [8:27] What it was like to travel for black Americans
• [14:52] The book’s origins
• [21:15] How people got the Green Book
• [24:25] Tomiko decides to travel the book
• [34:20] The continued racism in America
• [40:40] How Tomiko got started writing about travel and food
• [42:42] What to eat in Nashville

• Passports and Grub
• Birmingham and the Civil Rights Movement (my episode)
• Tomiko’s piece about the Civil Rights Museum

• stephanie@historyfangirl.com
• https://historyfangirl.com
• Support Stephanie on Patreon

Featuring the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere.

More info and photographs for this episode at:

https://historyfangirl.com/traveling-the-green-book/