Episodios

  • Sustaining Your Creative Practice (with Steve Lawson)
    Sep 26 2025
    Is the audience more than a gaggle of consumers? What role do they play in the creative process of an artist? Should they, as Rick Rubin says, "come last"? Are they always right? Or is there a more nuanced and sustaining way to approach this question? In this episode of The Gentle Rebel, I explore this question with Steve Lawson. I bumped into Steve towards the end of the summer at Greenbelt Festival. We rapidly got deep in conversation about his recently completed PhD, A Study Towards a New Model for Subscriber Audience Involvement in Improvised Music. Steve’s approach to music-making and creative practice has always resonated with me. Over the past twenty-five years, he has carved out a living as a solo improvisational bass player, developing a thoughtful and sustainable model for art that resists the common assumptions that drive an obsession with numbers and scale. His thesis turns that lived experience into a lens for questioning many of the assumptions baked into how we think about creativity today. https://youtu.be/BB362bVySiI Notes from our conversation... The Audience Comes With What happens if we treat the audience as part of the story that shapes and sustains our practice? A way of looking at the influential relationship between artist and audience is to create spaces where the rationale (the philosophical approach) can be presented, and work can emerge as part of a conversation with the audience. For Steve, listening to how people (who respect your work) engage with it, whether “that reminds me of…” or “my Dad just died and all I can listen to is you,” becomes so much more meaningful than having a reviewer who doesn’t know what you are doing or why, and place it in a pile of other CDs. What matters is how people relate it to their lives, and what it means to them. Creating spaces for this dialogue became central: a mailing list, website forum, Twitter, and eventually a subscription model through Bandcamp. Non-Algorithmically Defined Community Spaces This meant integrating community with the economic rationale for making music. The audience emotionally sustains the music and financially supports its creation, along with the maintenance of the space where both artist and audience belong as equals. When the audience has already paid for the music before it is made, there is no need to rationalise it with hype or spectacle. Instead, it connects with people who already share the philosophical approach. This is a form of patronage, supporting the artist because of how they create, not only what they make. Scenius (Brian Eno) Genius is not an individual trait but the manifestation of the collective intelligence of a scene. Famous names are simply the visible tip of a larger iceberg, as with Russian painters in the early twentieth century. Reception Theory (Stuart Hall) Audiences actively interpret media texts by encoding and decoding. They may align with the intended meaning (dominant reading), reject it (oppositional reading), or negotiate it. Instrumental music does not encode meaning in a concrete way. Its sense of meaning emerges cumulatively, with artist and audience encoding together. Decoding and recoding become a collective process, shaped by new work and ongoing observations. The Space of the Talkaboutable (David Darke) Great works expand the “space of the talkaboutable,” an invitation to discuss ideas and broaden horizons. While Darke sees this as arriving around the work, Steve sees the space as built first (through mailing lists, forums, Twitter, Bandcamp), with the work then released into it. Meaning is collectively encoded, decoded, and recoded in this shared space. “The Audience Comes Last” The PhD began with the desire to make better music. What became clear was how much the audience contributes to the process, and what happens when that is denied. Rubin’s statement that the audience should be ignored overlooks the wisdom, care,
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    1 h y 24 m
  • Hypervigilance and High Sensitivity (The HSP Owner’s Guide)
    Sep 20 2025
    In this week’s episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, we look at the relationship between sensory processing sensitivity and hypervigilance. As we finish our journey through the first HSP Owner’s Guide, we turn our attention to hypervigilance. that feeling of being permanently “switched on,” unable to stop scanning for danger, even when we’re safe. For highly sensitive people, vigilance is a natural part of sensory processing sensitivity. It helps us read the room, pick up subtle cues, and stay attuned to what is happening beneath the surface. But when vigilance tips into hypervigilance, it can leave us in a state of chronic over-arousal, disconnection, and exhaustion. In the episode, we explore why hypervigilance is such a common experience for HSPs, how it shows up in everyday life, and ways we might support our nervous systems in returning to a sense of safety and connection. I examine hypervigilance within a social and cultural context for HSPs, rather than from a clinical or individual psychological perspective. https://youtu.be/RCvrgSJH73I Vigilance vs. Hypervigilance Vigilance is an intrinsic feature of sensory intelligence. It anchors us in the awareness to notice and predict useful information to help us survive and thrive together. Hypervigilance is what happens when vigilance overspills, and we get stuck in a state of alertness with limited capability to move our nervous system into a state of connection. This can have roots in early life (especially for HSPs who are more impacted by their formative environments). But it can also develop over time because of the pressures and rhythms of the modern world, with constant notifications, cultural glorification of busyness, and a never-ending expectation to perform and prove our worth. Possible Signs of Hypervigilance Hypervigilance is not always dramatic. Often it shows up quietly and gradually, for example you might notice: Feeling flat or detached, as if life is happening behind glass Difficulty taking action, even on small plans Unusual tearfulness Brain fog and trouble focusing Ruminating thoughts on repeat Disrupted sleep cycles Anxiety or panic attacks seemingly “out of nowhere” Harsh self-criticism or low self-esteem If these feel familiar, they may be signs that your nervous system has been in “stay safe” mode for a long time. Why Hypervigilance Happens Hypervigilance is the nervous system’s over-lean into the message, “stay safe by staying alert.” This is obviously appropriate in certain contexts, but when we carry this story everywhere, it takes its toll and can be a difficult pattern to get out of. Some common contributing factors include: Early Environments: Growing up in conflict or unpredictability can train the nervous system to always be on guard, especially in volatile environments where safety could be torn away at a moment's notice. Past Experiences: The nervous system may overlearn from painful experiences, remaining alert to avoid “ever letting that happen again.” Cultural Pressures: Hustle culture, social media outrage cycles, and global crises all create a background hum of threat. Worldview and Meaning-Making: Certain belief systems (political, religious, ideological) can divide the world into “us vs. them,” keeping us in a state of perpetual alertness to nefarious outside actors. Physiological Factors: Poor sleep, hormone shifts, or nutritional deficiencies can lower our threshold for perceiving danger. These are rarely isolated and often overlap in ways that reinforce one another. Meeting Hypervigilance with Creative Gentleness A helpful (though, not easy) way to meet everyday hypervigilance is to slow things down. Not necessarily by stopping altogether, but by letting engagement become gentler and more deliberate. Rather than rushing to solve, fix, or control, we can allow space to notice small sensory glimmers,
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    32 m
  • As a Man Thinketh (A History of Self-Help)
    Sep 6 2025
    I had not heard of James Allen before I started exploring this history of self-help. I saw references to his book, “As a Man Thinketh”, which was frequently cited as an influential text around the power of thought on manifesting circumstances. With our “It’s the thought that counts” theme in The Haven this month, my curiosity took me into a James Allen rabbit hole. I read three of his books: From Poverty to Power (his first), The Divine Companion (his last), and As a Man Thinketh (his most famous). I wanted to try getting a sense of where he was coming from in his philosophical worldview. He published around twenty books, all written within an eleven-year period, before he died in 1912 at just 47 years old. I do wonder how his ideas would have evolved if he had lived longer. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, I share my response to As a Man Thinketh. I reflect on Allen’s ideas and their implications for the way we think about ourselves, one another, and the nature of reality. https://youtu.be/tVtG-Ahrkgw Why Am I Doing This Project? You may be wondering why I'm exploring self-help...Good question. I'm not completely sure. But I think it's because I’ve felt an intuitive nudge to explore this world and its function in culture. I don't know where it will take me (I have no overriding purpose or vision with it - sorry James!), or what I will find, but I have a sense that there are interesting things to discover by examining, not just the content that is common in the self-help genre, but the role the field plays in how we understand and judge ourselves, others, and the horizons of possibility for the world. As I find in this book, there are some interesting insights and invitations to explore. But it also carries the potential to be understood, embodied, and applied in dangerous and harmful ways, especially when Allen’s metaphors are mistaken for literal truths. This is where his philosophy, which initially sounds positive and empowering, becomes reductive and destructive when we examine its logical implications. It demonstrates rhetorical tricks that are echoed in modern-day personal development literature, such as metaphorical literalism. This is where poetic imagery and aphorisms are employed to support and prove otherwise baseless philosophies. How James Allen Described As a Man Thinketh As a Man Thinketh is intentionally short. Allen described it as a pocket book with teaching that all can easily grasp and follow. He said it shows how, in their own thought-world, each human holds the key to every condition, good or bad, that enters into our life. By working patiently and intelligently upon our thoughts, we may remake our life and transform our circumstances. The question I keep coming back to throughout this exploration is, does he mean this as a description or a prescription? And what difference does this make to our reading, interpretation, and application of these ideas? As a Man Thinketh - Notes Thought and Character “A man is literally what he thinks, his character being the complete sum of all his thoughts." A person is the product of thought alone. The mantra “change your thoughts, change your life” is still repeated as if it were a scientific law rather than a metaphor. The Effect of Thought on Circumstances “Every man is where he is by the law of his being. The thoughts which he has built into his character have brought him there, and in the arrangement of his life there is no element of chance.” Prosperity and poverty, joy and suffering, always mirror the state of an individual’s mind. The Effect of Thought on Health and Body "The body is the servant of the mind. It obeys the operations of the mind, whether they be deliberately chosen or automatically expressed." Thought is the source of health and sickness. Thought and Purpose “He who has conquered doubt and fear has conquered failure.” To avoid suffering,
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    1 h y 4 m
  • Overstimulation and High Sensitivity (The HSP Owner’s Guide)
    Aug 22 2025
    This post elaborates on the ‘overstimulation’ section of The HSP Owner’s Guide. In this week's episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, we look at the relationship between sensory processing sensitivity and overstimulation. Overstimulation is a term we often hear when people talk about high sensitivity. It's the second word in the DOES acronym after Deep Processing and before Emotional Responsiveness or Empathy, and Sensing Subtleties as a description of core characteristics of the trait. But what do we actually mean by overstimulated? What does it look like? And is there anything we can do about it other than avoiding stimulating environments and situations? At the get-go, I want to answer that question with a resounding yes. We don’t have to write ourselves out of the situations, environments, and experiences that really matter to us. We have the capacity to build sustainable approaches to this stuff. https://youtu.be/qy8XxQe7_iU Responsiveness and Stimulation Because highly sensitive people are all different, it’s important to remember that sensitivity isn’t who we are. It’s more like the rails our nervous system runs on. It is often described as a spectrum of sensory responsiveness. Those on the high end take in a huge amount of sensory data and process it deeply. Those on the low end take in less, and most people are somewhere in the middle. As a species, we have evolved and benefit from individuals existing along this continuum. Environmental Sensitivity researchers describe this variation through the concept of differential susceptibility. Some individuals are more profoundly influenced by their environment, for better or worse. It’s not about weakness or fragility. It’s about responsiveness and depth of processing. Studies show that highly sensitive individuals flourish in supportive settings but face greater challenges in chaotic ones. I like to visualise this difference using microphones. A sensitive condenser mic is uniquely effective in quiet, controlled spaces. It picks up every subtle detail. But in a loud environment, it can get overwhelmed by noise. A dynamic mic has a narrower field of responsiveness and can work in almost any environment because it picks up less background noise. Both are useful, but for different purposes. This helps us remember that high sensitivity isn’t a flaw or superpower, it’s just a variation in human temperament, useful in some contexts and less so in others. What Overstimulation Looks Like Overstimulation can look different from individual to individual. It is caused by an overload of the nervous system with environmental, emotional, social, or cognitive information. It's not always evident to others when a highly sensitive person is overstimulated. Despite appearing calm or composed, HSPs may be grappling with intense physical discomfort or emotional distress due to nervous system overload. Rising levels of stress hormones such as adrenaline, noradrenaline, and cortisol exacerbate this heightened sensitivity, leading to strong reactions to excitement, tension, temperature changes, or sensory stimuli in the environment. What looks like calmness in a person might be a kind of shutting down. This happens to me when I've had too much stimulation - I can look really chilled out, but in actual fact I'm unable to function properly. You might experience: Physical symptoms of overstimulation Lightheadedness or dizziness Internal tremors (feeling shaky inside without visible shaking) Heart palpitations or irregular heartbeat sensations Nausea or digestive discomfort Temperature sensitivity Cognitive effects of overstimulation Difficulty concentrating or focusing on tasks Short-term memory lapses Mental fog or feeling disconnected from surroundings Racing thoughts Emotional responses Irritability disproportionate to the situation Sudden emotional surges, such as tears or outbursts of frustration
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    42 m
  • Exploring the History of Self-Help and the Rise of a Global Industry
    Aug 15 2025
    I’m starting a project exploring the history of self-help; where the ideas came from, how they’ve changed over time, and what they mean for us today. This episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast is my chance to set some intentions, explain why I feel drawn to do this, and share how you can get involved if you want to join me for the ride. I’m not starting this project with the end in mind. Sorry, Stephen Covey, but I’m rebelling against the second habit of highly effective people. I honestly don’t know how this will look or where it will take me. I’m just intrigued to dig into the backstory of personal development and positive thinking, and explore how it became an industry worth an estimated around $40 billion in 2024, projected to more than double by 2033. Self-help shapes how millions of us think about ourselves, our relationships, our struggles, and our potential. I want to look at where it came from, how it works, and what it’s doing to us now. https://youtu.be/GMowyoc4TeA This isn’t about belittling self-help I want to approach this with a curious and critical open mind, not a cynical one. I’ve personally gained insight, tools, and practices from authors in the personal development space. So, I have experienced the value of resources and authors under the broad self-help umbrella. But I do have some questions. One in particular that has long been on my mind...with the ideas in self-help are as widely adopted as they are, why haven’t they “worked” in the big-picture sense? Why now feels like a good moment to examine the rise of self-help We’re living in a strange mix of economic precarity, post-pandemic disorientation, the maturing of influencer culture, and now AI churning out self-help style advice at industrial speed. If self-help reflects and responds to the anxieties of its time, then this moment feels like a perfect point to ask whether it might be contributing to those same anxieties it claims to ease. The quote that caught my attention About 12 years ago, I read The Antidote: Happiness for People Who Can’t Stand Positive Thinking by Oliver Burkeman. One idea in it has stuck with me ever since: “Perhaps you don’t need telling that self-help books… rarely much help. This is why some self-help publishers refer to the ‘eighteen-month rule’, which states that the person most likely to purchase any given self-help book is someone who, within the previous eighteen months, purchased a self-help book—one that evidently didn’t solve all their problems.” I was a big reader of personal development books at the time, especially those that spoke to building online businesses around creativity. They gave me a sense of forward momentum and excitement about future possibilities, but I could also feel myself on a treadmill. Old dissatisfaction was replaced with new. That quote made me wonder if the self-help industry insists on not solving our problems. Which makes sense when you think about it...why would a market secure its own demise? It needs to keep inventing new problems to solve. Otherwise it collapses. The 18-month rule and endless repackaging Some people enjoy the sense of growth that comes from reading a new book, and there’s nothing wrong with that. But from my experience, a lot of them say the same thing in different clothing. Different anecdotes. Different metaphors. Same structure. So why do we keep reading? And why does the market keep producing more? The Mel Robbins example Earlier this year, I looked into whether Mel Robbins had plagiarised a poem by Cassie Phillips and made up the story that inspired her book The Let Them Theory. I bought and read the book as part of my research. It’s not my usual reading choice, and I hadn’t read a new personal development book in years. Two things struck me: The writing felt more like marketing copy than the work of a writer. The ideas weren’t new; just repackaged versions of stoicism,
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    20 m
  • Toxic Positivity is a Permanent State of Temporary Discomfort
    Aug 2 2025
    The internet is full of memes about positive thinking. I saw this quote a few days ago:"The only difference between a good day and a bad day is your attitude." At first glance, it contains some truth. Of course, the way we think about things can influence our relationship with them. But taken too far, this kind of thinking turns into something insidious and destructive. In this episode of The Gentle Rebel Podcast, we explore the darker side of positive thinking. https://youtu.be/E0JCsl_u_7M?si=XAHxf4c2LB578QIr I remember hearing someone suggest replacing 'have to' with 'get to' as a way to live with more gratitude for things we take for granted. Again, that can definitely be a useful reframe at times. But the associated claim that words impact thoughts and thoughts are the only thing that create our reality can quickly become an imprisoning and judgemental superstition. Toxic positivity encourages emotional suppression and shame, where anything other than optimism is considered weakness or failure. You've Only Got Yourself To Blame If we follow the logic that our thoughts dictate our reality to its extreme, we land in a society shaped by what philosopher Byung-Chul Han calls the achievement imperative. In this world, external rules are replaced by internal commands. We no longer respond to "you should" or "you must." Instead, we internalise the injunction to perpetually "live our passion," "find our purpose," and "optimise our potential." Han quotes Tony Robbins, who promotes this mindset by saying,"When you set a goal, you’ve committed to CANI (Constant, Never-Ending Improvement)! You’ve acknowledged the need that all human beings have for constant, never-ending improvement. There is a power in the pressure of dissatisfaction, in the tension of temporary discomfort. This is the kind of pain you want in your life." This leads to a permanent state of temporary discomfort. There is always something to optimise, improve, and change. Never rest. Never be satisfied. The Problem With Pathological Positivity Toxic positivity - we might describe it as pathological positivity (though I've seen a book of that name painting it as a desirable state of being, so that's a bit odd)- thrives on the belief that we should reframe negative thoughts. But there is a big difference between resistance and repression. A good comparison comes from Viktor Frankl, the Holocaust survivor, founder of logotherapy and author of Man’s Search for Meaning. He wrote:"We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms—to choose one’s attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one’s own way". Choosing Your Response vs Blaming Your Attitude Unlike self-help slogans, Frankl’s words do not offer easy comfort. He was not promoting positive thinking. He was describing something he observed in those who were stripped of their humanity and subjected to unimaginable suffering. For Frankl, attitude was not a shortcut to happiness or material prosperity, but a form of resistance and an expression of power over an oppressor. It was a way to maintain dignity in the face of dehumanisation. His message was not about pretending things are okay, but about facing reality with courage and integrity. This contrasts with James Allen’s 1903 As a Man Thinketh, often credited with laying the foundation for mindset-focused personal development and the Law of Attraction. Allen writes:"All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts.""Suffering is always the effect of wrong thought." These statements are not just simplistic. They can be dangerous. They suggest that all suffering is self-inflicted, that illness, grief,
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    28 m
  • Moral Sensitivity (The HSP Owner’s Guide)
    Jul 11 2025
    This post elaborates on the 'moral sensitivity' section of The HSP Owner’s Guide. Have you ever felt like you’re carrying the weight of the world’s wrongs inside your body? You may feel torn between staying true to your values and going along with what is considered “normal”? For many Highly sensitive people (HSPs), this quiet inner tension is familiar. Sensory processing sensitivity often comes with an instinctive concern for fairness, justice, and the well-being of the world around us. This moral sensitivity is woven into how many HSPs notice, feel, and respond. Alongside this internal compass, many HSPs naturally hold strong values that influence how they interact with life. This can fuel a desire for harmony and social cohesion, while also heightening their awareness of injustice or harm. Their choices are often guided by the impact on others, including people, animals, and the environment. https://youtu.be/mnoCdSo2QnA What Might Moral Sensitivity Look Like in a Highly Sensitive Person? Every HSP is different. Our beliefs naturally vary. We do not all approach, value, or hold things with the same convictions. But there are characteristics and patterns that are common for many HSPs. Awareness A clear sense of personal values (a highly sensitive person may develop and arrive at their own set of foundational values that they live by. These are not necessarily intentionally chosen, but they might be evident in the elements they consider when making decisions and taking action). Sensitivity to injustice, dishonesty, or unfair treatment of others (they might find themselves stirred to action when they witness or experience actions that go against their values. This can even lead to acting against personal interests for the sake of something or someone else). Discomfort with actions or systems that violate deeply held principles (HSPs might be aware of the role of dehumanising systems, processes, and attitudes, which step outside of their moral and ethical values). Connection to Meaning A tendency to question purpose, both in personal life and broader societal structures (this might happen quietly in your heart and mind, with some trusted confidants, or it could occur in a wider context). Interest in philosophical, spiritual, or ethical frameworks (HSPs might connect with ideas that give scaffolding to their values. They might adopt them fully or build their own from joining dots and piecing things together). Intuitive sense of what feels morally "right" or "wrong" in different contexts (many HSPs tend to notice patterns across contexts. This underpins trust or distrust without overt evidence for it). Responsibility and Diligence Acting in alignment with personal values (decisions and choices are often made with a desire for a deeper sense of meaning or purpose). Attunement to moral dilemmas and contradictions in societal norms Disturbance when witnessing hypocrisy or people acting without integrity (needing to do something when seeing people deliberately manipulating, deceiving, or taking advantage of others). Feeling personally responsible to do "the right thing" in difficult situations. Sensitivity to Moral Nuance and Grey Areas Noticing nuances in ethical dilemmas that others might overlook (highly sensitive people might see nuance where others paint a simplistic picture). Struggling with situations where no choice feels fully just or fair (they might feel the weight of decisions they had to make, but which had costs to them). Processing moral questions for longer periods before reaching conclusions (HSPs might need more time before forming an opinion or judgement). How Moral Sensitivity Shows Up in Daily Life Personal Relationships HSPs may be particularly attuned to imbalances in fairness, such as one-sided friendships or unequal effort in partnerships. They might notice their concerns belittled or dismissed as "overthinking" ...
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    37 m
  • Everything wants us hooked
    Jun 30 2025
    Some tools are built to help us grow; to learn, connect, or reach meaningful goals. But eventually, we might ask: are these tools still working for us, or have they hooked us and quietly turned us into their tool? This question has been on my mind since I started using Duolingo seventy-six days ago. I had just returned from a trip to Finland and wanted to keep learning a bit of Finnish: nothing too intense, just some gentle exposure to the language each day. From what others had said, Duolingo seemed like the ideal tool. I started on the free version. It offered just enough. However, I was soon being nudged constantly toward the premium upgrade. Eventually, I gave in and accepted the offer of a 7-day trial. Before I knew it, £68.99 was taken from my account. Dagh! I had forgotten to cancel in time. That was frustrating. But what I noticed next was fascinating. Over time, I realised I was no longer using Duolingo to expand my learning outside of the app. I was using it to keep my streak alive inside it. It works. And it works well. But it also works against us (and our bigger picture aspirations). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8tC3VtbgSk The Hook Model in Action This shift in behaviour mirrors the “Hook Model” described by Nir Eyal in his book Hooked, which outlines how habit-forming products are designed to draw us in and keep us there. The hook model follows a four-step cycle: Trigger – External cues like notifications or internal ones like guilt or fear of missing out. Action – The easiest possible behaviour in response to the trigger, like opening the app or doing a lesson. Variable Reward – Unpredictable reinforcement like badges, praise, or social validation that keeps us engaged. Investment – The time, energy, or money we’ve already poured into the product, which makes it harder to walk away. This system is incredibly effective at building engagement, but it often does so by subtly shifting our focus from what we originally cared about to what keeps the platform profitable. When the Tool Hooks Us What starts as a helpful tool can morph into a system that prioritises retention over transformation. Only 0.1% of Duolingo users ever complete a full course. That isn’t a design flaw; it’s the business model. The goal is not to help us complete something, but to keep us inside the ecosystem. Duolingo began nudging me toward other courses I hadn’t asked for. Music theory. Chess. It was no longer about Finnish. It was about keeping me engaged, clicking, and coming back. This is when a tool becomes a trap, not because it stops working, but because it starts working too well at the wrong thing (keeping us engaged). From Motivation to Manipulation This isn’t just about language apps. It’s about how many of our digital experiences are shaped by systems designed to extract our wealth and capture our attention, energy, and even our identity. In Punished by Rewards, Alfie Kohn warns that external motivators like badges, praise, or pizza vouchers for reading not only influence behaviour but also diminish it. Over time, we stop asking “Why do I care about this?” and instead ask “What do I get for it?” In The Burnout Society, philosopher Byung-Chul Han argues that we have shifted from a culture of external discipline to one of internalised self-optimisation. We no longer rely on a manager or teacher to pressure us; instead, we pressure ourselves. Rest is viewed as a failure. Play is considered wasted time. Self-worth is now linked to productivity. Apps like Duolingo thrive in this cultural moment. They don’t just support our goals; they reshape them. We start wanting to learn a language and end up wanting to maintain a streak. What once felt like growth begins to feel like a contract we’re stuck in. The Rocket Booster Test Good tools (as well as teachers, programs, coaches, therapists, etc) should be like solid rocket boosters: they help us launch,
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