For episode 190 of The Fire These Times, Dr. Michael Paarlberg talks to Dana El Kurd about El Salvador’s ‘state of exception’ under Nayib Bukele, how Trump sees that as a model, the conditions of Salvadorian prisons and what happens to the Venezuelan and other refugees and migrants deported from the USA by Trump and the unaccountable state actors doing his bidding.

Paarlberg is associate professor at Virginia Commonwealth University and non-resident fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies. He was previously on TFTT in August of 2024 (episode 164) to talk about how Bukele created a ‘Gang State’ in El Salvador. As that was before Trump’s election, it is a good primer into what is it about El Salvador today that makes it so appealing to the maga movement.

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For more:

• Dana El Kurd is on Bluesky

• Michael Paarlberg is on Bluesky

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Transcriptions: Transcriptions are done by⁠ Antidote Zine⁠ and will be published on⁠ The Fire These Times' transcript archive⁠.

Credits: Dana El Kurd (host), Elia Ayoub (producer, episode designer), ⁠⁠Rap and Revenge⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (Music), ⁠⁠Wenyi Geng⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (TFTT theme design), ⁠⁠Hisham Rifai⁠⁠⁠⁠ (FTP theme design) and ⁠⁠Molly Crabapple⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ (FTP team profile pics).