Send us Fan Mail

Website - www.examined-life.com

Substack - https://thisexaminedlife.substack.com

Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@ExaminedLifePodcast

BJ's TED talk - https://www.ted.com/talks/bj_miller_what_really_matters_at_the_end_of_life

Mettle Health - https://www.mettlehealth.com/

BJ Miller on Loss, Meaning, and Learning to Feel

In this conversation, Kenny Primrose speaks with palliative care physician BJ Miller, co-founder of Mettle Health, about grief—not as an interruption to life, but as one of its central experiences.

Rather than treating grief as something that happens only after death, Miller suggests it is a constant human condition: the emotional response to loving things that inevitably change, fade, or disappear. The problem, he argues, is that modern culture is profoundly grief-illiterate. We rush people toward closure, reward emotional stoicism, and teach one another to avoid feeling too much.

Drawing on his own life—including a catastrophic electrical accident at age 19 and the later death of his sister, Miller explores how grief shapes identity, attention, relationships, and even politics. When grief is denied, it often reappears disguised as anger, grievance, blame, or division. When felt honestly, however, grief reconnects us to meaning, deepens aliveness, and enlarges our capacity to live well.

The conversation ranges from personal loss to healthcare reform, from daily mortality practices to the healing role of beauty and nature at the end of life.

In This Episode

• Why grief is not exceptional but universal
• How emotional avoidance creates “grief illiteracy”
• The pressure to perform strength—and its hidden costs
• What patients at the end of life teach about living
• How grief transforms into anger, grievance, and polarization
• Loss as a doorway to presence and gratitude
• The importance of rituals and communal containers for mourning
• Why medicine often treats death as failure
• Practicing mortality as a path to meaning
• Beauty, nature, and tenderness as forms of medicine

Key Ideas

Grief as Love Continuing
Grief reveals what mattered. Rather than diminishing life, it clarifies it.

Grief vs. Grievance
Unfelt grief frequently becomes blame, resentment, or political division.

Learning to Feel
Emotional literacy—pausing before reacting, tolerating discomfort—is both personally healing and socially protective.

Rituals Matter
Modern societies have lost many shared practices that help people metabolize loss. We must rediscover or reinvent them.

Rethinking Healthcare
End-of-life care should prioritize meaning, beauty, and connection—not simply the postponement of death.

Support the show

Send us Fan Mail

Learning from Loss with Dr. Lucy Hone

How do you survive the unthinkable? When resilience researcher Dr. Lucy Hone lost her 12-year-old daughter in a tragic accident, she didn't just study the science of grief—she had to live it. In this episode, Lucy joins Kenny Primrose to share the practical, evidence-based tools that help us oscillate between mourning and living, and what we can learn about life in the wake of loss.

In This Episode:

In this new series on grief and mortality, we explore why the "stages of grief" model often fails us and what actually works instead. Dr. Lucy Hone discusses her journey from the University of Pennsylvania’s resilience program to the frontlines of her own personal tragedy.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The Myth of "Bouncing Back": Why we need a more pragmatic definition of resilience.
• The 3 Habits of Resilient Grievers: Simple, actionable shifts in attention that can change your trajectory.
• The "Helping or Harming" Test: A vital tool for psychological flexibility.
• The Jigsaw Metaphor: How to rebuild your life when the old pieces no longer fit.
• Hidden Grief: Understanding "non-death" losses and how to process them.

About Lucy:

Dr. Lucy Hone is a best-selling author, TED speaker, and co-director of the New Zealand Institute of Wellbeing & Resilience. Her work has been published in The Journal of Positive Psychology and featured in The Washington Post, BBC, and The Guardian.

Resources Mentioned:

• Book: Resilient Grieving: How to Find Your Way Through a Devastating Loss
• New Book: How Will I Ever Get Through This? (On hidden and non-death grief)
• TED Talk: The Three Secrets of Resilient People

Connect with The Examined Life:

• Host: Kenny Primrose
• Website: www.examined-life.com
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@ExaminedLifePodcast
• Follow & Subscribe on substack: https://thisexaminedlife.substack.com/
• Support the series - buymeacoffee.com/kennyprimrose

If you found this episode helpful, please leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify—it helps others find these conversations.

Support the show

Send us Fan Mail

A short trailer for the forthcoming season where we explore mortality, immortality, loss, grief and finding meaning in the wake of them.

In the above clip you'll hear snippets from Lucy Hone, BJ Miller, Kathryn Mannix and Victor Strecher - with other episodes to follow. Subscribe and stay tuned for the forthcoming episodes, and sign up to This Examined Life on Substack to receiving updates and related essays to your inbox - This Examined Life | kenneth primrose | Substack

Support the show