🎯 Referrals already work for your agency but you've never optimized them...

Get our free 30-minute video crash course - learn how to turn referrals from reactive and random to proactive and systematic.

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Most agencies lose pitches before they walk in the room. Here's why — and what to do about it.

Grant Gooding, founder of Proof Positioning, has helped agencies win high-stakes pitches using neuroscience, decision physiology, and a research process built on an FBI interrogation technique. The insights are counterintuitive and the results speak for themselves.

In this episode:

-Why 70% of agency pitches fail (and it's not your creative)
-The neuroscience behind why logic-only pitches can't be processed
-The RFP trap — and how box-checking makes you invisible
-How to de-risk a pitch for a multi-stakeholder buying group
-The FBI elicitation method that gets to the truth without asking questions
What "pre-work" looks like — and why it gives agencies an unfair advantage
Why "build me a website" almost always masks a bigger business problem
Grant's 3-step formula for winning the pitches that matter most
The threat to agencies from AI + holding company acquisitions — and how to fight back

Find Grant: proofpositioning.com

🎯 Referrals already work for your agency, but you've never optimized them.

Get our 30-minute video crash course on how to turn referrals from reactive and random to proactive and systematic:
https://go.salesschema.com/opt-in-mw-referral-engine/?utm_source=podcast_dag
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Buying patterns have changed - fast. If you're still pitching the same offers the same way you were two years ago, you're probably hearing "let's talk in three months" a lot.

Mandi Ellefson returns to the show to break down what's actually happening out there, and what agencies and service firms can do about it.

A few things we got into:

• Why clients are freezing, shrinking scope, and pushing timelines — and what's really behind it
• The four-level service pyramid (staff augmentation → high-quality provider → proven ROI → growth partner) and where 80% of the market is stuck generating 20% of the profits
• The "Power of One" formula: one client, one painful problem, one transformation — and why offers built around it command dramatically higher fees
• Why hiring a salesperson before your go-to-market system is built usually makes things worse, not better
• The blind spot most agency owners have when they think "I just need more sales"
• How a sales admin can own 70–80% of the referral and partnership process so the owner only shows up for the conversations
• A real example of an agency that niched into elder care, went from five-figure to seven-figure engagements, and is on a path to $10M

Resources mentioned:

Mandi's upcoming training on the Hands-Off Growth Operating System: handsoffceo.com/briefing

🎯 Referrals already work for your agency, but you've never optimized them.

Go here to get our 30-minute video crash course on how to turn referrals from reactive and random to proactive and systematic: https://go.salesschema.com/opt-in-mw-referral-engine/?utm_source=podcast_dag

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Adam Yaeger built Llama Lead Gen from solo freelancer to 17-person embedded growth agency over eight years. In this episode, he breaks down what actually drove that growth — and what didn't.

We get into why he put branding on the back burner early (and why that was the right call), the hiring mistake that cost him a client relationship, and why soft skills matter more in the age of AI, not less. On the biz dev side, Adam shares what's worked for Llama Lead Gen — SEO, Clutch, referrals — and why cold outreach mostly didn't. Plus a few partnership stories, including what happens when white labeling goes sideways.

We also dig into GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) and why Reddit has quietly become one of the more interesting paid channels for B2B.
What we cover:

-Growing from solo to 17 people over eight years
-Why branding can wait — and when it can't
-How Llama Lead Gen gets new business: SEO, Clutch, and referrals
-Partnership wins and one memorable miss
-Balancing client delivery with sales when you're the only BD
-Managing seasonality: when to push, when to pull back

Resources Mentioned

Llama Lead Gen: https://www.llamaleadgen.com/
— Marketing budgeting and PPC calculators available on the site

Lead Gen in the Wild Podcast: Available on Spotify, Apple, and wherever you listen