This week, we open the conversation with reflections on the challenges of living daily life amid the onslaught of horrific news, so often these days instigated by our own government. We reflect on normalcy—focusing on daily tasks of caring for family, tending friendships, and connecting with local community—as a mode of resistance. We then turn to address the war in Iran, particularly how Pete Hegseth and the Trump administration are glorifying domination and violence itself through their rhetoric and recent propaganda videos officially released by the White House. And we discuss the administration's utter lack of moral justification for the war, including how Trump has failed virtually all criteria from the just war theory tradition in Christian ethics—as two prominent American Catholic cardinals pointed out this week.

Follow on BlueSky:

https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...

https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...

https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...

https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...

Follow on Substack:

The Convocation- convocation.substack.com

Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net

Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com

Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com

Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

In this TCU+LIVE conversation, we covered a lot of ground. We opened with the significance of Trump’s falling favorability numbers in a brand new survey, especially among white non-evangelical Protestants and Latino Protestants. We also talked about Pete Hegseth’s dangerous commitments to Christian Nationalism and how it is entangled in the War in Iran—noting that the story is much more complex than some of the viral hot takes circulating on social media. For the theology nerds, we unpack the critical differences between “seven mountains mandate” dominionism and premillennial dispensationalism (but we don’t get too far into the weeds!). We also spent the latter half of the show answering listeners’ insightful questions. Thanks so much for all of you who posted, and if we didn’t get to your question, we’ll hope to next time.

On this episode, we discussed the deep logic of white Christian nationalism. It’s all about protecting the hierarchy: men over women, white people over all people of color, straight people over LGBTQ people (when they are even acknowledged at all). So this week, when we saw Doug Wilson—who has been an apologist for white Confederate slave-owning society and an advocate of stripping the right to vote for women—invited by Pete Hegseth to preach at an explicitly Christian worship service at the Pentagon, we were disturbed but not surprised. It’s all about defending the hierarchy. Robby unpacked a major new PRRI survey on Christian nationalism, which demonstrate how strongly these views are correlated to denials of systemic racism, patriarchal gender roles, anti-LGBTQ attitudes, and anti-immigrant attitudes. We wrapped with an appreciation for the life and witness of Jesse Jackson Jr., who died this week. Jemar shared his personal experience meeting Jackson and described his vision of a rainbow coalition that contrasted with white Christian nationalism.

Follow on BlueSky:

https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...

https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...

https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...

https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...

Follow on Substack:

The Convocation- convocation.substack.com

Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net

Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com

Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com

Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

On this episode, we discussed the ways white femininity has been weaponized by Trump and the MAGA movement, along with the erasure of climate change as a scientific conclusion by the Trump administration. Pam Bondi’s recent contentious testimony before Congress, which was widely criticized for its disrespectful demeanor towards Democratic lawmakers, provided a vivid example of conservative white feminine performativity. Kristin gave us a sneak peek into a chapter in her forthcoming book, Live Laugh Love, titled "Lipstick on Pitbulls," which analyzes such performances. There she notes how ideals of white femininity and beauty are marshaled to justify authoritarianism and state violence. We wrap the episode with a discussion of the U.S. government's official erasure of the scientific consensus that climate change is real, which removes the EPA’s authority to regulate emissions. We note that this remarkable action represents half a century of collusion between the oil industries and the Christian right. Finally, we close with some thoughts about resistance and experiencing Lent in these challenging times.

In this TCU+LIVE conversation, we talked about Trump’s shameful, rambling speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, where he talked three times longer than his allotted slot. His remarks were filled with lies about losing the 2020 election, cursing, threats to churches and nonprofits who disagreed with him, and the demonization of Democrats.

We’ve come a long, long way from the days when conservative Christians were proudly talking about themselves as “values voters”—to the point where few white evangelical Trump supporters are even attempting to explain away his markedly unChristian behavior and rhetoric. Would it even be problematic anymore if all white Christian Trump supporters watched the entire speech and were asked, about every 10 minutes, to personally affirm that this is the man they believe is most fit to lead and the vision they want for the country? And if not, what does that mean for the moral state of white conservative Christianity? Be sure to watch the second half, where we took questions from our subscribers across a range of issues: continued violence by ICE, Trump’s threats to seize the midterm elections, and more.

Follow on BlueSky:

https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...

https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...

https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...

https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...

Follow on Substack:

The Convocation- convocation.substack.com

Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net

Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com

Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com

Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

In this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, Jemar, Diana, and Kristin talk about what it means—and what it costs—to speak up in a moment of moral and political crisis.

Reflecting on the Southern Lights Conference, Alex Pretti, and midterm elections, they explore why so many people who once remained silent are now finding their voices, and what finally pushes individuals past fear, caution, and self-protection.

The discussion examines the forces that keep people quiet—especially within Christian communities—and challenges the tendency to weigh personal risk more heavily than the harm caused by silence.

The episode calls listeners to move beyond delayed outrage and performative concern toward courageous, faithful witness rooted in solidarity, truth-telling, and moral responsibility.

This week we talk about the recent autopsy reports that reveal the escalating brutality of ICE. Renee Goode’s autopsy revealed that she was shot four times in rapid succession. Another autopsy report this week revealed that the death of migrant Geraldo Lunas Campos, who was in ICE custody at an internment camp in Texas, was unlikely a suicide as the government claimed but caused by wounds consistent with strangling by a third party. A witness testified seeing Campos handcuffed, restrained by multiple guards who squeezed his neck until he passed out. We also emphasized that a small number of Republicans in Congress could potentially stop these immoral, harmful policies. We also discussed the ICE protest that interrupted a church service in Minnesota and the historical parallels between those actions and Civil Rights campaigns that targeted white churches in the 1960s. In the wake of Martin Luther King Jr. Day, we concluded by reflecting on the hope of his message and his faith that "right temporarily defeated is stronger than evil triumphant."

Follow on BlueSky:

https://bsky.app/profile/jemartisby.b...

https://bsky.app/profile/kkdumez.bsky...

https://bsky.app/profile/dianabutlerb...

https://bsky.app/profile/robertpjones...

Follow on Substack:

The Convocation- convocation.substack.com

Robert P. Jones- www.whitetoolong.net

Diana Butler Bass- dianabutlerbass.substack.com

Kristin Du Mez- kristindumez.substack.com

Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Following our conversation last week about the senseless, unjustified killing of Renee Good by and ICE agent in Minneapolis, this week we bring you a special episode of The Convocation Unscripted with our first ever guest, Rev. Angela Denker. Angela is an ordained Lutheran pastor in Minneapolis (her full bio is below) and author of DISCIPLES OF WHITE JESUS: The Radicalization of American Boyhood. We’ve been fans of Angela’s courageous writing and preaching for years, and this week she gives us firsthand experience and reporting of the brutality and chaos that has been unleashed on Minneapolis residents by ICE and CBP, which combined now outnumber local city law enforcement by a factor of five. This invasion of an American city based on the thinnest pretext—over the protests of both the mayor and the governor—is a dress rehearsal for Trump’s dream of authoritarian rule across the country. Angela gives us both the horror and the hope from the faithful resistance. You don’t want to miss this one.

Rev. Angela Denker is an award-winning author, ELCA Lutheran pastor, and veteran journalist. Her first book, Red State Christians, was the 2019 Silver Foreword Indies award-winner for political and social sciences. Her second book, Disciples of White Jesus: The Radicalization of American Boyhood, came out on March, 25, 2025. She is a former columnist for the Minnesota Star Tribune and has written for many publications, including Sports Illustrated, the Washington Post, and FORTUNE magazine, and has appeared on CNN, BBC, SkyNews, and NPR to share her research on politics and Christian Nationalism. Pastor Angela lives with her husband, Ben, and two sons in Minneapolis, where she is a sought-after speaker on Christian Nationalism and its theological and cultural roots. She also serves Lake Nokomis Lutheran Church in Minneapolis as Pastor of Visitation and Public Theology. You can read more of her work on Christian Nationalism, American culture, social issues, journalism, theology, and parenting on her Substack, I'm Listening.