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Roger Finke is distinguished professor emeritus of sociology and international affairs at Penn State University. Roger is also the founder of the Association of Religion Data Archives, which is an online archive of the best religion data available, a standard research tool for social scientists. He is the author of several books including the subject of today's interview: The Price of Freedom Denied: Religious Persecution and Conflict in the 21st Century (2011) co-authored with Brian Grim.

In this book, Grim and Finke found that as religious freedoms are denied in a society, both by government and by social groups within a society, religious persecution increases. Given the quasi-establishments of evangelical Christianity developing throughout the land, it is important to be aware of the potential consequences of these church-state alliances.

The Association of Religion Data Archives (ARDA) - www.thearda.com. The co-directors are Andrew Whitehead and Christopher Bader. Regular listeners will recall my interview with Andrew in episode 5.

Music provided by Earl's Taco Shack and Jonus Fair.

Artwork provided by Sarah Eshelman

Produced and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

The series will be on hold throughout the remainder of August while I complete The Christian Past That Wasn't, due out next year. You can pre-order it anywhere books are sold. The Amazon link is https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0FCCCP71V

The next episode will post sometime in September. Thanks for listening!

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Today's segment is the second part of my interview with Paul Matzko, historian and senior program manager at the Institute for Humane Studies at George Mason University. Paul is also an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute. Our topic today is Paul's answer to the question: has Christian nationalism ever worked?

Listen in to find out.

As a part of addressing the question, Paul tells the story of Quaker martyr Mary Dyer.

Music provided by Earl's Taco Shack, Jonathan Swaim, and Jonus Fair.

Artwork by Sarah Eshelman.

Hosted and produced by Warren Throckmorton

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Paul Matzko is a historian and senior program manager for AI and emerging technology at the Institute for Humane Studies at George Mason University. He is also an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and host of the Unintended Consequences podcast.

Today, he joins me to discuss how Christian nationalism differs from citizen engagement with politics. Often Christian nationalists complain that they are simply living out their faith in the public square. However, Paul teases out the differences between policies which benefit the common good and those which are designed to benefit mainly or only Christians affiliated with the regime in power.

This is part one of a two-part interview. Next week, I will have the conclusion where Paul talks about the bitter consequences of Christian nationalism and addresses the question: Has Christian nationalism ever worked?

Topics today:

• What is Christian nationalism?
• Christian nationalism and the ideology of South African apartheid
• Christian nationalism and Geralf L. K. Smith
• Billy Sunday and the Klan
• MAGA as the modern America First movement
• Christian nationalism is a different faith than orthodox Christianity
• Christian nationalism and public schools
• and much more...

Music today is provided by Earl's Taco Shack, Jonus Fair, and Dustin Blatnik.

Hosted and produced by Warren Throckmorton

Artwork by Sarah Eshelman