Upali interviews Boaz about the relational meditation practices he's been doing, including relational qi gong. Their conversation then pivots to the role Boaz sees meditation practice holding in healing and altering societies. Boaz will be speaking at a conference Dec 5 - 7, 2025, and you can find more information at this link.

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Professor Steven Haberlin is a professor at the University of Central Florida. In this episode, you'll hear him talk about teaching small amounts of meditation to very large amounts of people. Steven tells us about the benefits of this style of teaching, as well as what risks there are. The episode then focuses on research he's been doing on technological adjuncts to meditation and the use of meditation apps. The research forms part of his new book, Meta-Meditation for Mental Health: How Neuroscience, Virtual Reality, and AI are Changing Practice and How You Can Benefit.

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Upali interviews Anusheh, who began practicing The Mind Illuminated in order to improve her anxiety. While it did help, it was a more convoluted path than she had been expecting. One topic she and Upali talk about is the idea that striving is actually helpful, in that it causes you to burn out enough that you stop doing it, which is the route to good practice. Anusheh also talks about the transition from lusting after enlightenment -- "future happiness" -- with the focusing on what happiness could look like in the present moment.

"Rejecting your experience right now takes a lot of energy!"

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