In this episode, digital marketer Colin Royal—husband to ENT surgeon and fellow Hippocratic Collective co-founder Dr. Frances Mei Hardin—joins the show to discuss everything we didn’t learn about how industries outside of surgery work.

In surgical culture, we often carry false notions, like the idea that we should give our time, energy, and value away for free (see Episode #4: Toxic Martyrdom).

The truth is: we aren't exempt from the rules of business. Businesses need money for sustainability, and money comes from value.

As surgeons, we have a lot of value to give the world.

We give value to our patients when we hold space for them in clinic and offer our expertise. We give value in the operating room when we use our skills to help fix their problems. We give value to our communities by taking call. We give value every time we answer phone calls and messages.

These are all value points, and we’re not wrong or bad for monetizing them. Every other industry does. That’s how a profession becomes sustainable: the more value you offer, the more people want to pay to receive it. The more resourced and protected you are as the ASSET, the more capacity you have to give your value for free…when you want to. Giving value away for free isn’t bad in and of itself, but when a system or culture forces us to martyr ourselves against our will, that’s a recipe for burnout and implosion.

When we begin to understand how the world outside of surgery works, we open the door to diversifying our identity. We start to feel comfortable with the idea of multiple income streams. We stop telling ourselves that we’re special snowflakes with no discernible skills beyond surgery. We can learn marketing, selling, and social media just as well as the next person.

The sooner you learn these lessons, the sooner you release yourself from your self-appointed shackles and the sooner you create freedom to evolve with your career. You deserve to be compensated for the immense value you offer the world. And you get to give value away for free on your terms.

If this resonates, you are going to want to follow The Hippocratic Collective here. If you have an idea you want to share with the world, HC can bring that idea to life. If you are a woman surgeon interested in the Cabo retreat, get on my calendar here. You can learn more about Empowered Surgeons Group here.

******SENSITIVE CONTENT WARNING*********

This episode discusses child abuse, religious trauma, depression, moral injury, and pediatric violent trauma. Please listen carefully.

Pediatric surgeon Dr. Jose Greenspon shares an unflinching account of practicing at one of the busiest trauma centers in the country, shouldering all of the work after his partners resigned, all while his own faith, family, and mental health unraveled. He speaks candidly about stigma in surgery, moral injury, being labeled “disruptive” when asking for help, and the moment a sensory trigger in the OR surfaced a childhood assault by a rabbi. This conversation is about the cost of carrying more than one human can hold, and the courage to put the burden down.

If this episode resonates with you, and you'd like to reach out to Dr. Greenspon, email him at jgreenspon76@gmail.com

In this episode we discuss:

• Dealing with life-and-death without a vent partner: Pediatric penetrating trauma is difficult enough; facing it without support is punishing. Dr. Greenspon recognized the essential need for a trusted peer or space to unburden the experiences surgeons carry.
• Faith in crisis: As an Orthodox Jewish man, he struggled to find God in the chaos—then a flashback to childhood molestation shattered what remained of his religious safety net and contributed to the end of his marriage.
• The breaking point: A child his daughter’s age died from a gunshot wound to the chest. A smell in the OR triggered a panic attack and a vivid flashback. He finished the case, then self-reported to the CMO.
• Stigma and moral injury: Seeking help led to being labeled rather than supported. “You martyr yourself, and it gets weaponized against you.”
• Choosing to leave: Why leaving a toxic job and facing his demons was the best decision, and how outstanding residents became close friends.
• “Parent whisperer”: How he builds trust with families, honors the gravity of every operation, and treats residents with radical humility: “The only difference between me and you is that I happen to come first.”
• Work as a vice: How unprocessed trauma can morph into work addiction, guilt, and a compulsion to protect children—plus what recovery looks like now with a therapist who understands religious abuse.
• System reflections: On toxic competitiveness in pediatric surgery, administrative incentives, and what true appreciation and backup should look like.

RAINN (U.S.) — National Sexual Assault Hotline: 800-656-HOPE (4673) | rainn.org

988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (U.S.) — Call or text 988 | 988lifeline.org

Physician Support Line (U.S.) — 1-888-409-0141 | physiciansupportline.com

• If this conversation resonated, share it with a colleague.
• Subscribe to Surgeons With Purpose and leave a review to help other surgeons find the show.
• For coaching and community: Empowered Surgeons Group—tools, calls, and connection for surgeons navigating moral injury, complications, and career inflection points.

Thank you, Dr. Greenspon, for the honesty and heart you brought to this episode.

Click here to join Empowered Surgeons Group.

On today's episode, enjoy the replay of the webinar, "From Imposter to Integrated: Reclaiming Humanity and Authenticity in Surgery".

You can access all webinar replays inside the Empowered Surgeons Group member portal. Looking forward to seeing you inside the group!