We live in what Heath Hardesty calls the age of disintegration - a world marked by fragmentation, distraction, and disconnection. I feel that deeply. So many of us are trying to hold our lives together in a culture that constantly pulls us apart. In this conversation, Heath joins me to talk about how apprenticeship to Jesus offers another way - a way toward coherence, union, and wholeness. Heath is a pastor in the Bay Area and the author of All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus Is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World. We talk about what it means to move beyond simply knowing about Jesus to actually living with Him - to abide, obey, and become people who image His love in a fractured world. We explore practices like unhurried presence and compassionate gentleness, and how they reveal a kind of power that’s rooted not in control, but in love. If you’ve felt scattered, weary, or disoriented in your faith, this episode is an invitation to slow down, breathe, and remember that in Christ, all things hold together.

Heath Hardesty is the author of All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World (WaterBrook; on sale 10/14/25) and he serves as the lead pastor of Valley Community Church and is the founder of Inklings Coffee & Tea in the heart of downtown Pleasanton, California. Heath grew up in a blue-collar home and was a plumber’s apprentice in Colorado before becoming a pastor on the edge of Silicon Valley where he, his wife, and four kids now reside. He holds degrees in literature, leadership, biblical studies, and theology from the University of Colorado Boulder and Western Seminary in Portland. Visit him on IG@heathhardesty

Heath's Book:

All Things Together

Heath's Recommendations:

God is On Your Side

The Poems of Seamus Heaney

Gerard Manley Hopkins

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Justin McRoberts weaves together art, prayer, and spiritual direction to help others find their way through seasons of loss, disappointment, and hope. In this conversation, Justin shares how letting go of outcomes opens us to God’s presence, why beauty is often discovered in the low places of life, and what it means to companion one another with compassion instead of control. We talk about depression, shame, and the cultural pressures to optimize and perform, and Justin offers a vision of faith that embraces reverence, honesty, and presence. Along the way, he reflects on his collaboration with Scott Erickson, the creation of In the Low, and how art can become a companion in our hardest moments. This is a conversation about finding God’s gifts in grief, learning to receive help, and discovering beauty in unexpected places.

Justin McRoberts is an author, coach, speaker, and songwriter. He is the author of many books, including In the Low. For over 20 years, Justin has helped artists, ministers, and entrepreneurs find their way. From the stage, through his stories in books or during coaching sessions, he leans on his years of work and expertise as a minister and artist to help individuals and teams solve problems in their creative processes. When hes not writing, speaking, or coaching, you can find him as the host of the At Sea Podcast. He lives in the East San Francisco Bay Area.

Justin and Scott's Book:

In the Low

Justin's Recommendations:

In the Absence of the Ordinary

True and False Magic

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Connect with Joshua: jjohnson@shiftingculturepodcast.com

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In this episode, I sit down with author and poet Kaitlin Curtice to explore the ways stories shape our lives and communities. Drawing from her new book Everything Is a Story, Kaitlin reflects on the narratives that formed her growing up, the Indigenous wisdom that grounds her, and the liminal spaces where transformation takes place. We talk about cyclical and linear storytelling, the role of art and poetry in healing, and how interfaith relationships and community can help us move beyond fear and division. This conversation invites us to honor the stories we carry, let go of those that wound, and imagine new ones that lead us into kinship, belonging, and hope.

Kaitlin Curtice is an award-winning author, poet-storyteller, and public speaker. As an enrolled citizen of the Potawatomi nation, Kaitlin writes on the intersections of spirituality and identity and how that shifts throughout our lives. She also speaks on these topics to diverse audiences who are interested in truth-telling and healing.

As an inter-spiritual advocate, Kaitlin participates in conversations on topics such as colonialism in faith communities, and she has spoken at many conferences on the importance of inter-faith relationships. Kaitlin leads workshops and retreats, as well as lectures and keynote presentations, ranging from panels at the Aspen Climate Conference to speaking at the Chautauqua Institution and at universities, private retreat centers, and churches across the country.

In 2020 Kaitlin’s award-winning book Native: Identity, Belonging and Rediscovering God won Georgia Author of the Year in the religion category. Native explores the relationship between American Christianity and Indigenous peoples, drawing on Kaitlin’s experiences as a Potawatomi woman.

In 2023, Kaitlin released two books, first, Living Resistance: An Indigenous Vision for Seeking Wholeness Every Day, which examines the journey of resisting the status quo of hate by caring for ourselves, one another, and Mother Earth, and second, her first children’s book called Winter’s Gifts: An Indigenous Celebration of Nature, which is the premier book in a series of four books on the four seasons coming out with Convergent, RandomHouse Books. Her second book in the series called Summer’s Magic was released in 2024.

Besides her books, Kaitlin has written online for Sojourners, Religion News Service, On Being, SELF Magazine, Oprah Daily, and more. Her work has been featured on CBS and in USA Today. She also writes essays and poetry for The Liminality Journal and spends her time supporting other authors as they navigate the world of publishing. Kaitlin lives near Philadelphia with her partner, two dogs, and two kids.

Kaitlin's Book:

Everything is a Story

Kaitlin's Recommendations:

Care of the Soul

The Works of John O'Donahue

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