This episode of Sell With Authority is about being more human — not as a tagline, not as a brand promise — but as the way forward.

Right now, I'm hearing the same thing from agency leaders, marketers, and business owners everywhere:

"Our marketing doesn't work like it used to."

We're in the middle of a fundamental shift. A power shift. Our guest today calls it The Third Rebellion — a moment where customers, not companies, control the conversation.

We can no longer buy our way into attention — we must be invited. And that changes everything about how we market, how we sell, and how we lead.

Today's guest expert has spent his career helping leaders and brands rise above the noise by doing one thing most companies have forgotten how to do: Be human.

Mark Schaefer is one of the most trusted voices in marketing today — a bestselling author, educator, and keynote speaker who's worked with brands like Adidas, Pfizer, and Coca-Cola, delivering insights on five continents.

His latest book is How AI Changes Your Customers: The Marketing Guide to Humanity's Next Chapter.

Mark is a guide for leaders who are tired of blending in.

He reminds us that the world doesn't need more content — it needs more connection. AI can replicate words, it can't replicate humanity.

In the end, the most human company wins.

• Why "the third rebellion" has shifted control from brands to customers — and what that means for your agency
• The real reason traditional marketing and advertising are less effective than ever — and what to do instead
• How to earn an invitation into your ideal client's world (you can't buy your way in anymore)
• Why trust is the new currency and the surprising role brand communities play in creating it
• How to create transcendent content that can't be replicated by AI
• Why being vulnerable and removing layers of control will make your agency an easy yes

• Website: https://businessesgrow.com/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/markwschaefer/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/schaefer-marketing-solutions/
• How AI Changes Your Customers: The Marketing Guide to Humanity's Next Chapter

Before I introduce our very special guest experts joining this episode of Sell With Authority, I want you to pause and consider something.

What if the reason you're not winning more new business has very little to do with your talent…
your portfolio…or even your credentials?

What if the pitch you're preparing is focused on the wrong thing?

Here's the hard truth: winning pitches aren't about you.

In their outstanding new book, It's Not About You: Winning More Business in a Crowded Agency World, Robin and Steve Boehler of The Mercer Island Group pull back the curtain on what really happens inside agency pitch rooms — from the client's side of the table.

Robin and Steve have spent decades helping iconic brands. Along the way, they've seen thousands of pitches — which means they know exactly what separates the winners from the ones that never had a chance.

Your prospect isn't deciding whether your agency is clever or impressive. They're deciding whether you truly understand their business — and whether you can help solve what matters most.

In this conversation, Robin, Steve, and I explore why it's not about you is such a powerful principle, why listening beats talking every time to shift your focus from your agency to your prospect, and how to adopt a truly prospect-friendly pitch.

• "It's Not About You" is the ultimate biz dev philosophy for agencies — how to make it your own
• How to bond with prospects over their problems instead of your solutions
• How AI and new tech are changing the game for agency research
• How to navigate pitch conversations so the client believes they're driving, while you guide them step-by-step to the close
• Examples of what separates winning pitches from those that lose the room
• Pro tips for structuring your Q&A process so you don't miss a thing
• How to use Robin and Steve's field guide so your agency can consistently raise the bar

• Website: https://migroup.com/
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/mercer-island-group/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MercerIslandGroup/

Today's episode of Sell With Authority is another powerful installment in our special series on trust and distrust inside the agency sales process.

Our special guest expert is Sharon Petry, President of Vision Creative Group, a full-service creative agency that has been helping clients "make penguins fly" for almost 40 years.

Sharon has worn just about every client-service hat there is — from account coordinator and new business development to VP of account services — before becoming President and co-owner of Vision in 1991 alongside her husband and business partner, Andy. Together, they built an agency known for creativity, consistency, and long-standing client relationships.

Sharon's perspective is such a perfect fit for this series because trust starts with relationships — not transactions, not titles, not tactics. She brings us back to the truth underneath all of it:

Trust begins with connection.

When clients see care, consistency, and accountability over time, they don't just see an agency — they see a partner.

From transparent communication to choosing right-fit clients, Sharon's insights will reshape your approach to relationship-driven growth.

• Why "making penguins fly" is really about cultivating a culture of care and accountability
• How Sharon defines trust in the context of long-term client relationships
• How the quality of trust inside your agency directly impacts your sales pipeline flow
• Why client loyalty and team longevity are earned one transparent conversation at a time
• The difference between taking any project and pursuing right-fit relationships — and why boundaries matter
• The leadership moves that turn your team into a family, fostering trust and accountability from day one

• Website: http://www.visioncreativegroup.com/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonpetry/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/vision-creative-group_2/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/vcgagency

Today's episode of Sell With Authority marks an exciting milestone in our special series on trust and distrust in the agency sales process.

Over the last several episodes, you've heard from agency leaders who've generously shared how they work to build trust — through their content, through the relationships they nurture, and through the way they lead their teams.

For today's conversation, we're moving into the next evolution of the series. We're shifting from practice to proof.

Predictive ROI and our friends at Audience Audit are partnering on a five-year longitudinal research study on trust — more specifically — how agencies can build trust faster and more efficiently with a cold audience.

What makes this research unique is that we're not surveying agency professionals. Instead, we're going straight to the decision-makers — the CEOs, CMOs, and senior marketing leaders responsible for hiring, firing, and retaining agencies. We're digging into what actually drives or destroys trust inside their decision-making process.

This is the kind of research that helps every agency leader understand what builds confidence with the people who ultimately control whether you get hired — and how to shorten the time it takes to get to trust.

If you've been part of our community for a while, you know research has always been one of the cornerstones of how we build trust at scale — long before a first meeting ever happens.

That brings us to today's special guest expert: Susan Baier, CEO and Founder of Audience Audit. Susan has helped organizations and agencies uncover the motivations, beliefs, and behaviors that drive audience decisions for more than 30 years.

Her team specializes in attitudinal segmentation — the kind of research that reveals why people think the way they do, not just what they do. Her insights have helped countless agencies sharpen their positioning, elevate their thought leadership, and build deeper trust.

Hannah Roth — Predictive's Director of Strategy and our resident Mad Scientist — is joining me as co-host today. She works with our clients to build systems that earn trust at scale, and she leads the experiments and research inside our Predictive Lab. This five-year study is a collaboration between Hannah, Susan, and our teams.

• Why trust is the missing link in most biz dev strategies — and where it actually leaks out of your sales pipeline
• How attitudinal segmentation flips the script on research and moves you from "just data" to true thought leadership
• Why the majority of decision makers assume businesses are lying to them from the get-go
• Why a five-year longitudinal study gives you an unfair advantage — and what trends you should be watching
• How behavioral science plus data creates moments of "you just get me" with cold prospects
• What you can START doing today to build trust at scale and shorten the sales cycle with well-prepared, ready-to-buy clients

• Website: audienceaudit.com
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanbaieraz/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/audience-audit-inc./

This episode of Sell With Authority is another part of our very special series on trust — and distrust — in the agency sales process.

You've been hearing from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue head-on. These conversations are not only timely — they're also forming the research foundation for my next book, The Trust Architecture, and a new series of Field Guides we'll soon be sharing with our community.

As we've seen time and again from our work alongside agency owners and their teams — trust, or the lack of it, is one of the biggest obstacles to having a sales pipeline that flows with right-fit prospects.

When trust is present — your pipeline flows.

When trust is absent — there's friction and momentum stalls

Our guest expert today is Chris Gauron, Founder of Voro, a Minneapolis-based digital media agency that has grown from a solo consultancy into a 26-person powerhouse generating more than $5 million in agency gross income.

Candidly, it's not just the numbers that matter. It's the reputation.

In their clients' own words…Voro is "a digital agency you can trust."

And that's exactly why Chris belongs in this special series on trust and distrust within the agency sales process. He knows what it takes to build rock solid awesome trust, earn clients' confidence — and scale a business that's future-proof in a sea of shifting digital sands.

• How showing vulnerability up front accelerates trust more effectively than any flashy sales technique
• Why Chris's early career in car dealership sales became an unexpected blueprint for agency growth, client service, and long-term relationships
• How operational discipline and honest expectation-setting remove friction and strengthen every client engagement
• Why top-performing sellers succeed by listening first — that skill outperforms even the strongest pitch
• What to say immediately when you know you're not the right fit — and how that honesty actually increases your authority and influence
• Focusing on progress over perfection should anchor your agency's culture and guide every client conversation
• Why asking "why" can be your secret trust-building superpower

• Website: https://voromedia.com/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chrisgauron/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/voro-media/

This episode of Sell With Authority is another part of our very special series on trust — and distrust — in the agency sales process.

You've been hearing from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue head-on. These conversations are not only timely — they're also forming the research foundation for my next book, The Trust Architecture, and a new series of Field Guides we'll soon be sharing with our community.

As we've seen time and again from our work alongside agency owners and their teams — trust, or the lack of it — is one of the biggest obstacles to having a sales pipeline that flows with right-fit prospects.

When trust is present — awesome — the pipeline flows.

When trust is absent — not awesome — friction sets in, uncertainty creeps up, and momentum stalls.

Which makes today's conversation another rock solid awesome fit for this series.

Our special guest expert is Maddy Osman, Founder of The Blogsmith, a content marketing agency trusted by top B2B technology brands. Maddy's perspective is such a valuable addition to this series because agencies know that the quality of content can either build or break credibility.

A missed deadline, an inconsistent voice, or a sloppy process erodes trust instantly.

But content that's consistent, well-structured, and scalable doesn't just demonstrate credibility — it earns it.

You'll hear how Maddy defines trust in agency-client relationships, how content and thought leadership can build trust at scale, how her team ensures quality and credibility through strong operations, and how to balance efficiency — maybe even AI — with human creativity to keep trust at the center of it all.

Content can transform your agency's credibility into trust — THEN turn that trust into growth.

Maddy shares her proven processes, mistakes to avoid, and her hard-won lessons on turning trust into lasting growth.

• Why trust — or lack of it — is the single biggest friction in your agency's sales pipeline
• Maddy's playbook for building trust from the very first client touchpoint
• The secret behind "the trust cookie"
• How to leverage operational discipline so your clients see you as the safest pair of hands they've used — ever
• Candid examples of when it's time to say "no" for the sake of integrity — and how that builds referral gold
• A balanced approach to leveraging AI, building human connections, and never losing your voice in the noise

• Website: https://www.theblogsmith.com/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madelineosman/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/theblogsmith/
• X: https://x.com/maddyosman
• Writing for Humans and Robots: The New Rules of Content Style: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09X4NJ9H8

This episode of Sell With Authority is part of our special series exploring one of the most vital dynamics inside every agency's sales process: trust and distrust.

You've been hearing from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue head-on. These conversations are not only timely — they're also forming the research foundation for my next book, The Trust Architecture, and a new series of Field Guides we'll be sharing with our community.

As we've seen time and again from our work alongside agency owners and their teams — trust, or the lack of it, is often the biggest obstacle to having a sales pipeline that feels like a steady stream of right-fit prospects flowing into your agency.

Which makes today's conversation a perfect fit for this series.

Our special guest expert is Jerry Gennaria, President and CEO of TOKY.

Jerry brings more than 30 years of experience helping professional service firms tell their story more effectively, build stronger businesses, and reach their full potential. He's also the host of The Intangible Brand podcast — where he explores what brand really means beyond the surface-level tactics.

Here's why Jerry's perspective matters so much for this series…

In a recent LinkedIn post, he made an incredibly sharp observation — when Southwest Airlines cut away the very things customers loved most about their experience, it wasn't just a rebrand.

A brand isn't just graphics or identity — it's about who you are internally and how customers experience you externally. When you change that alignment — you break trust.

That ties directly to what we saw in the 2025 Edelman Trust Barometer — when trust erodes, grievance and frustration take over — but when trust grows, optimism and loyalty follow.

That's exactly the kind of work Jerry and his team at TOKY do every day — helping clients align their brand and their actions so that trust is reinforced at every single touchpoint.

When your agency's brand and your actions are aligned — trust isn't an abstract idea. It's felt — in every interaction, every proposal, every conversation.

When trust is felt at every touchpoint — selling more of what you do stops being about persuasion — and starts being about consistency.

That's why we wanted Jerry's perspective to be part of this series.

When I say we — I mean Hannah Roth, our Director of Strategy and Mad Scientist, is here with me for this conversation to bring her data-driven perspective into this discussion with Jerry — because when you combine brand alignment with real-world strategy — that's when trust becomes measurable and scalable.

• How to make prospects feel seen — and why that matters for conversion
• Jerry's "brand is a promise delivered" philosophy for agencies
• The art and science of pushing back — and how it earns deep respect from right-fit clients
• Why authentic storytelling aligned with your brand delivers exponential results
• Ways to boldly show your expertise without being self-aggrandizing
• Why trust is not built in the big gestures

• Website: toky.com
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gennaria/
• The Intangible Brand: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-intangible-brand/
• TOKY: https://www.linkedin.com/company/toky-branding/
• The Intangible Brand Podcast: www.theintangiblebrand.com

Today's episode is part of our special series exploring one of the most vital dynamics inside every agency's sales process: trust and distrust.

Over the coming weeks, you'll hear from agency leaders who are leaning into this issue head-on. These conversations are not only timely — they're also forming the research foundation for my next book, The Trust Architecture, and a new series of Field Guides we'll be sharing with our community.

Here at Predictive ROI, we help agencies sell more of what they do. And time and again, from our work alongside agency owners and their teams, we've seen that trust — or the lack of it — is the biggest variable determining whether your pipeline flows like a steady stream of right-fit prospects… or grinds to a halt.

When trust is present — momentum builds.

When trust is absent — friction takes over.

Which makes today's conversation a perfect fit for this series. Our special guest expert is Darren Magarro, Founder and President of DSM. Since launching DSM in 2007, Darren has led his agency through the ups, downs, twists, and turns that every agency owner knows too well.

But what truly sets him apart is how he leads. Darren's people-first, community-centered approach is at the heart of how DSM builds trust. He works tirelessly to put others on a path to success — and that shows up in every corner of his business.

When trust increases — optimism replaces grievance — and people shift from frustration to future-focused hope.

Darren's leadership embodies that shift.

• The rock solid data that proves why "people-first" and community-centered leadership is now the must-have ingredient for agencies that want to build real trust
• How Darren's approach to leadership at DSM turns transparency and empathy into a competitive business advantage
• Why budget qualification must happen early
• The three-step biz dev process that weeds out bad fits so you can focus on dream clients
• Why client stories, tough conversations, and owning mistakes can translate directly into agency resilience and reputation
• Candid advice for agency owners who want their team and clients to be truly optimistic about the future
• Why your LinkedIn content should be more helpful

• Website: https://thedsmgroup.com/
• LinkedIn Personal: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenmagarro/
• LinkedIn Business: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-dsm-group/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheDSMGroup
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thedsmgroup