show notes

No one likes role playing, but it is a necessary part of becoming a successful seller. The good news is there are ways to make it more fun and engaging for students. In this episode, BJ Allen and I share practical tactics to help students get more comfortable with role playing and show professors how to turn it into a meaningful learning experience.

Why Role Plays Matter

1. Even though students may resist role plays at first, they often become one of the most valuable parts of the course.
2. Based on student feedback, BJ and I have seen role plays rank highly in evaluations.
3. Introducing them early, sometimes as soon as the second day of class, helps lower anxiety and build confidence over time.
4. Role plays give students a chance to apply what they are learning right away, helping them move from theory to real conversations.

Effective Strategies for Role Plays

1. Here’s how we design and run role plays in class:
2. Teach, Demonstrate, Practice: We follow a simple approach. First, we teach the concept. Then we demonstrate what it looks like in action. Finally, we give students time to practice so they can build comfort through repetition.
3. Start Simple: We keep scenarios familiar and relatable, such as selling well-known products in a B2B setting. This helps students focus on the skill instead of getting stuck on the scenario.
4. Clear Structure: Students know exactly where the conversation starts and ends. Each role play has clear steps and a set time limit so expectations are clear.
5. Feedback That Evolves: Early in the semester, the focus is simply on practice. As students gain confidence, we introduce more specific feedback using clear criteria so they can continue improving.

Tips for Professors: Start Small and Improve Over Time

1. If you are new to using role plays in the classroom, the advice BJ and I share is simple. Just start. Your first few role plays do not need to be perfect, and it is normal for both you and your students to feel uncomfortable at the beginning. That discomfort fades as everyone gets more reps and confidence grows.
2. As you continue using role plays, you will naturally see what works and what does not. Each class gives you an opportunity to adjust your approach and improve how you structure the exercise.
3. Keep things simple and give both yourself and your students room to learn. With a clear structure, limited scope, and supportive feedback, role plays become less awkward and more valuable over time. By the end of the semester, students consistently say they appreciate the experience and the confidence it builds.

“Let the students give feedback, but give them very specific points to focus on.” — BJ Allen

“Giving them clear criteria for how they’ll be evaluated helps fine-tune the role play. I’ve seen it be very effective.” — Donald Kelly

After our last conversation on sales competitions, we decided to invite someone who is often behind the scenes of them. In this episode, Detra Montya, a sales professor at Arizona State University, joins us to share what it really takes to pull sales competitions together. She also offers coaching tips for professors on helping students work through challenges, along with useful tools to prepare for the rivalry.

How the Competition Got Started

1. We asked Detra how the Arizona Collegiate Sales Competition began, and it all started with a simple conversation over coffee between three universities.
2. What began with about 25 students has grown into a competition with 15 schools and more than a decade of impact.

Why Sales Competitions Matter

1. We talked about why sales competitions are so valuable for students. They give students real world experience, exposure to recruiters and different markets, and the confidence that comes from practicing their skills under pressure.
2. Detra and BJ Allen shared how these competitions often lead to internships, full time roles, and lasting relationships.

What It Takes to Run a Competition

1. Detra pulled back the curtain on what goes into organizing a sales competition. From securing sponsors and managing logistics to handling last minute challenges, she emphasized the importance of teamwork and adaptability.

Coaching Students to Perform

1. For professors and coaches, Detra shared practical strategies that work.
2. She talked about being intentional with student selection, running timed practice sessions, using tools like Second Nature AI, and focusing on closing skills, cultural awareness, and time management.

Adjusting to Each Environment

1. Detra reminded us that success depends on more than knowing the sales process.
2. Understanding the industry, judging style, and competition culture is key, and preparation should always reflect that.

“When you do a role play in Spanish, you have to think about the culture. Building relationships and connections matter, especially when judges or buyers are Spanish speaking.” - Detra Montoya

Resources

Connect with Detra Montoya on LinkedIn or via her email: detra.montoya@asu.edu to learn more and exchange best practices.

Put these ideas into practice by using tools like Second Nature AI and Matrix to prepare for your next sales competition.

Did you know that sales reps spend 60% of their day on tasks that don’t directly generate revenue? Much of this time is eaten up by planning and other non-sales activities.

In this episode, BJ and I discuss how sales professors can teach students to plan their day effectively. This helps them stay productive and focus on the activities that drive results.

Why Planning Matters

· In sales, everyone talks about closing techniques and prospecting hacks, but I want to shine a light on a less glamorous but crucial skill: planning.

· Learning how to manage your time effectively is one of the most important foundations for early sales success, and it can make a real difference in how students perform once they hit the field.

Student Insights: Planning’s Real-World Impact

· Over the years, I’ve been surprised by how much students value planning exercises.

· Many of them tell me that these lessons have had more impact than trendy topics like LinkedIn prospecting.

· BJ and I have seen students consistently rank planning skills as the most transformative lesson, both for their careers and their personal productivity.

Teaching Time Management: From Principles to Practice

· We break down how to embed planning into a sales curriculum in a practical way:

o Principles First: Students learn the difference between activity and productivity. We use exercises and psychological studies to bust multitasking myths and show the power of focused work.

o Time Blocking and Color Coding: Techniques like batching similar tasks and visually organizing a calendar help students understand where their time really goes.

o Weekly and Daily Planning: We walk students through breaking weekly targets into actionable daily routines, ensuring prospecting and customer-facing work happens consistently rather than by chance.

Making Planning Measurable

· We also emphasize the importance of metrics. Tracking calls, outreach efforts, and alignment with KPIs turns planning into a measurable skill.

· This approach moves students and new sellers from just staying busy to actually being productive and results-driven.

"Good salespeople know how to use their time effectively...People who can kind of plan their day and do more revenue generating activities are the ones that succeed." - BJ Allen

"Focus on the activity and the results will come as a natural byproduct. But if you don’t plan at a day-to-day level, you might say, ‘I did some prospecting this week,’ but how much time did you really spend on it?" - Donald Kelly

Most sellers are seen as untrustworthy because of their methods, but those are not professional sellers. Real sellers are problem solvers. How can professors get their students to see them this way? Our guest, George Denman, a sales leader and educator, is here to tell us how he does it. He also shares sales closing techniques and other tips professors can use to help their students prepare for the real world.

Breaking Down Sales Stereotypes

• Too often, people think of sales as pushy, manipulative, or just plain sleazy. George shares how those same misconceptions shaped his early view of sales, including opinions from people close to him.
• He explains why real sales success looks very different, with a strong focus on listening, authenticity, and solving problems instead of forcing a pitch.

Bringing the Real World Into the Classroom

• George walks us through how he brings real industry experience into his teaching. He uses role plays, guest speakers, and real client scenarios to help students see the human side of sales.
• We talk about how techniques like his “spin” approach shift the focus away from closing deals and toward uncovering needs and creating real solutions.

Preparing Students for What Comes Next

• We also dig into the challenge of moving from corporate sales into academia. George shares what surprised him most, including slower feedback and the work it takes to turn experience into effective lessons.
• His advice is simple and practical: do not reinvent the wheel. Start with a solid curriculum, then adapt it over time. At the end of the day, his goal is the same as ours, to prepare students with real world skills they can use long after the classroom.

“The goal is to prepare students for real life. You can share your successes and failures, but students have to close the deal themselves. Your job is to get them ready for the real world.” - George Denman

Resources

Reach out to George Denman at his Miami email: denomang@miamioh.edu

What’s the difference between sellers making millions and those who struggle to close a deal? Keurig founder Christopher Stevens says it’s not about being the best. It’s about getting things done. In this episode, he shares lessons professors can pass along to students, proving that big results can come from anywhere.

Meet Christopher Stevens

1. Chris is currently an Associate Professor at the University of Notre Dame, where he returned to teach after a long and successful business career that began in sales at Procter & Gamble.
2. He went on to lead an Anheuser-Busch distributorship and later ran a large spirits, wine, and beer company. In 1996, he joined two entrepreneurs to help launch what would become Keurig, where he led sales, marketing, and corporate responsibility as the company grew from a fad into a phenomenon.
3. Today, Chris continues to shape future leaders at Notre Dame while also serving as an active angel investor supporting startups focused on doing good alongside making a profit.

The Reality of Selling

1. Selling isn’t what you think it is. You have to see it beyond the transaction to understand the true meaning of selling.
2. Chris reminds us that nothing happens in business until someone sells something, and most startups fail because they do not sell enough.
3. He challenges students to rethink rejection, explaining that real selling often starts at the first no and becomes an opportunity to earn trust and solve real problems.

Being Human Builds Relationships

1. Deep human connection is at the heart of successful sales. Chris shares several stories from his classes, such as assigning handwritten thank-you notes and service projects.
2. These experiences help students look beyond themselves and foster genuine relationships.
3. Through service and storytelling, students learn that success in sales comes from empathy, connection, and real understanding of others’ needs.

Advice on Designing a Sales Curriculum

1. Chris shares how he doesn’t understand how students manage it today with AI and social media constantly in their face.
2. He says it’s important for professors to recognize just how overwhelmed students are and recommends integrating motivational content like TED Talks.
3. Chris also stresses the value of finding mentors and partners and encourages educators to help students discover their “why.”

“There are three kinds of people: those who make things happen, those who watch, and those who wonder what happened. To make things happen, follow Winston Churchill’s advice: don’t do your best, do what it takes to get the job done.” - Christopher Stevens

Resources

Christopher Stevens contact: email - csteven6@nd.edu, number - 617-510-5028

Books:

We’ve both been looking into our crystal balls to see what 2026 sales predictions look like from both the industry side and the education side. In this episode, we’re sharing 2026 trends that will help sales professors feel confident they’re teaching their students the latest sales techniques.

1. Growth in Sales Education

1. Every semester, BJ is seeing more and more students in his classroom. He also shares a statistic from the Sales Education Foundation that shows 50% of sales programs have been started in the last 20 years.
2. BJ is projecting even more students will enroll in these programs as demand grows in tech and as more students show interest in sales careers.

2. Increased Use of AI Agents

1. No, AI is not taking our jobs. However, there are tasks that have become a nuisance for sales professionals. Email, research, follow-ups… why do it yourself when technology can handle it for you?
2. Donald is seeing real growth in the use of AI agents for these types of tasks. However, BJ does point out there’s one task AI agents will never be able to replace.

3. Continued Growth and the Need for Humanization in Sales Outreach

1. Buyers are becoming more resistant to traditional sales techniques. Donald is seeing firsthand how much distrust exists with buyers right now and why personalization matters more than ever.
2. If we teach sales students this in college, they’ll be much better prepared for what the industry actually looks like.

We’re seeing more students enroll in sales programs, along with more intersection between AI and human skills. Donald is also seeing a heightened demand for ROI, as buyers want clear value and proof of their investments. If sellers can build real connections while showing ROI early, the sky is the limit.

“I feel like LinkedIn comments are critical and honestly better than messages. There should be more salespeople commenting on posts. People want that real connection. And yeah, you can use AI to do some commenting, but you can usually tell the difference between an AI comment and a human one.” — Donald Kelly

“It’s about developing organic relationships. This goes back to what I was saying earlier, the split between those menial tasks AI can handle. Great, let AI do that. But the students and salespeople who can build real, organic relationships are the ones who continue to do really well.” — BJ Allen

One of the best ways to get your students excited about the industry is by taking them to sales competitions. BJ can tell you how his students’ faces light up every time he takes them to one. In this episode, he shares the full breakdown of sales competitions so you can get just as excited about the profession.

Why Sales Competitions?

· We believe sales competitions do more than just test student skills. They help elevate a program’s credibility and act as a strong branding tool for schools.

· BJ Allen shares how participating in both local and national competitions opens the door to more networking and recruiting opportunities. These events also give programs a way to compare their curriculum with other top schools and identify what is working well and what could be improved.

How to Get Started

· You do not need prior experience to get started. Just take those first steps, that’s what really matters. We talk about starting with an internal competition or using it as a class exercise before expanding into regional or national events.

· Funding can often come from department chairs or local business sponsors. Try using the Sales Education Foundation as a helpful resource for finding both regional and national competitions.

Prepping Your Students

· Preparation plays a big role in student success. BJ emphasizes the importance of role play, repetition, and selecting students who truly understand the sales process.

· Watching students practice and offering feedback through peer-to-peer role play helps sharpen coaching and build confidence heading into competitions.

“Just like anything, you just have to start. You don’t have to know everything or have it all in place. Start with an internal competition to get a feel for it, see what works, and then find a nearby competition that is affordable. Ask your department chair for some support. You can probably find a sales executive who loves competitions and just ask them to sponsor a couple thousand dollars to help. The key is to just start somewhere.”

- BJ Allen

Resources

Connect with BJ Allen on LinkedIn for more competition insights or curriculum guidance. You can also reach out to him by email: bj_allen@byu.edu.