In carbon removal, landing a major offtake agreement—like Microsoft’s purchase of 44,000 credits from Carba—is often seen as the holy grail. But what happens next? How does the money flow, and can debt financing bridge the gap between signature and scale?

In this episode of Reversing Climate Change, host Ross Kenyon unpacks the deal between Microsoft and Carba, a waste-to-value biochar company turning landfill-bound biomass in Minnesota into durable carbon removal.

With credits to be delivered over five years, Carba needed capital to ramp up production. Enter Structure Climate, which is financing the deal to help Carba meet its commitments—showcasing a compelling model for how debt finance can unlock climate impact.

Guests Andrew Jones, CEO and Cofounder of Carba, and Matt Schmitt, Founder and CEO of Structure Climate (where Ross serves as an advisor), walk us through the mechanics of the deal, the role of debt vs. equity, and what this means for the future of carbon removal finance.

Resources

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"Carba Announces 5-Year Carbon Removal Credit Purchase Agreement with Microsoft" announcement

Structure Climate

Carba

Microsoft's carbon removal program

It's a jarring phrase. There's an even more jarring version of it in this episode. You've been warned.

Economists are well-known for gnomic sentences that can sound cruel. For some, that's one of the job's many perks. But that doesn't mean that there isn't some truth in representing decisions as trade-offs.

Today is a bonus monologue episode where I am going to unpack this phrase (and its nastier cousin) and explain what it has to teach the carbon removal industry as it grapples with the tension between scale and quality.

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠Offstream⁠

⁠Arbonics⁠

⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠

Resources

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"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" Wikipedia page

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You should know about my friend Heidi Lim. She's a leading voice of carbon removal on TikTok.

She's been making short-form content for ages but today's show is her first foray into long-form. I have the honor of being her first guest and co-releasing the episode.

It is my sincere honor to help Heidi launch her new content on YouTube!

We get real in this show, talking about the difficult and sometimes unsung work of climate communications, why our world feels so screwed up, and the black hole of tech jobs that suck so much talent into its brain drain.

Best wishes, Heidi! So glad you're now doing this. Count me as a big fan!

This Episode's Sponsors

⁠Offstream⁠

⁠Arbonics⁠

⁠Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics⁠

Resources

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠⁠

Heidi's TikTok

The full video on Heidi's YouTube channel

329: The "Faustian Bargain" in Climate Rhetoric: Goethe's Faust and Modern Occultism—w/ Daniel Backer, author

326: Confronting Our Shadow: Jung, The Vietnam War, & Climate Change—w/ Karl Marlantes, author

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Follow Carbon Removal Memes on LinkedIn

"And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."

- Matthew 5:30, KJV

If only there were a podcast that broke down all of the ways climate professionals broke into their industry...

Michael Gold is a communications expert and consultant at Word Clouds Consulting and the host of the new podcast, Climate Swings. This show traces guests' stories and explains how they landed a job working on one of humanity's most significant problem sets.

Check out the episode of Climate Swings I did with Michael retelling my odyssey into climate work here! Be sure to subscribe to his show, give it a great rating and review, and send it to a friend trying to come join us.

Also, a special thank you to 9Zero for serendipitously facilitating our connection and to Terra.do for helping Michael do what he does!

Resources

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"From PhD Dropout to Carbon Removal Comedian", the episode of Climate Swings I did with Michael

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Sometimes, we skip right over the life stories of guests. Othertimes, it's everything. Today, it's everything.

Returning to the show after several years is Carbon180's Executive Director, Erin Burns.

Erin grew up in a coal mining family in West Virginia, got her start in Joe Manchin's Senate office, and has had a long and impactful career in carbon removal.

Today, Erin (re)explains how the budgeting process works in the United States federal government and how the appropriations process intersects with it. What is the difference, and where can voters get involved?

This is truly an improvised masterclass in civics education. Listen up for what you missed in high school, and how it will impact the future of carbon removal.

This Episode's Sponsors

Offstream

Arbonics

Listen to the RCC episode with Lisett Luik from Arbonics

Resources

⁠⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠⁠

Carbon180

Scrip

Company town

"The Appropriations Process: A Brief Overview", a CRS Product

Carbon180's Carbon Removal Funding Tracker

"The Ghost of Tom Joad" by Bruce Springsteen

"Which Side Are You On?" by Pete Seeger

"There is Power in a Union" by Utah Phillips (originally by Joe Hill)

Harlan County, U.S.A.

The clean energy transition sure needs a heck of a lot of mining. What do we do when there are environmental or spiritual costs to getting the materials we need for EVs and batteries?

Ernest Scheyder is a Reuters reporter covering critical minerals, and the author of The War Below: Lithium, Copper, and the Global Battle to Power Our Lives.

His reporting strives to let audiences draw their own conclusions about where the line should be on environmental extraction, which is a rarer approach than maybe meets the eye.

Tune in to also learn where the political battles of the second Trump Administration over critical minerals in Ukraine and clean energy politics at home may lead, and what we should keep our eyes on in the future.

Resources

⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠

Ernest Scheyder's website

Ernest's reporting at Reuters

The War Below: Lithium, Copper, and the Global Battle to Power Our Lives

The Irresponsible Pursuit of Paradise by Jim L. Bowyer

⁠Follow the Reversing Climate Change podcast on LinkedIn

Nearly a decade ago, I was introduced to the concept of the Keynesian Beauty Contest. It is one of those concepts that I keep coming back to time and time again.

I recently participated in a two-month Product-Market Fit workshop led by Peter Nocchiero of Alternate Future and Koray Parmaks of Carbon Zero Capital. So I've been living and breathing PMF.

Here is a short monologue bonus video episode where I talk about the Product-Market Fit issues of climatetech and carbon removal, a now-outdated reference to how TSLA bears kept getting crushed, and relate them to my experiences as a founder of the Nori carbon removal marketplace.

Resources

⁠⁠⁠Become a paid subscriber of Reversing Climate Change⁠⁠

The Keynesian Beauty Contest on Wikipedia

Peter Nocchiero's Alternate Future

Carbon Zero Capital⁠

⁠⁠Follow the Reversing Climate Change podcast on LinkedIn⁠