Real Argument, Real Hope with E.J. Dionne (Best of 2025)

E.J. Dionne brings moral clarity and humility to the hardest questions in public life — this “Best Of” episode reminds us what real dialogue can be.

Best Of TP&R

As we close out the year, we’re resurfacing a small handful of conversations from the Talkin’ Politics & Religion Without Killin’ Each Other archive that best reflect what this show exists to do: create space for thoughtful disagreement, moral seriousness, and the hard work of living together in a pluralistic democracy.

In this Best of 2025 spotlight, we revisit one of the year’s most profound and inspiring conversations — a powerful episode featuring journalist, scholar, and public intellectual E.J. Dionne Jr.

From discussing the soul of democracy to the essential role of faith and hope in civic life, E.J. offers wisdom forged over decades of public service, writing, and dialogue.

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What We Explore:

• How E.J.’s upbringing shaped his approach to political argument.

• The moral imperative of engaging with ideas we disagree with.

• The difference between optimism and hope — and why the latter is vital.

• How faith and pluralism can bridge deep divides.

Highlights & Timestamps:

• [00:03:00] E.J. on his father’s influence in encouraging thoughtful disagreement.

• [00:06:00] Delving into DEI and the “woke” discourse — beyond caricatures.

• [00:10:00] Unexpected ways the Trump era united pro-democracy coalitions.

• [00:15:00] Economic pain and populist anger in Fall River, Massachusetts.

• [00:24:00] The virtue of hope in sustaining public life and discourse.

• [00:36:00] E.J.'s personal faith journey and the humility of belief.

• [00:48:00] Reflections on Pope Francis and the Catholic Church’s evolution.

• [01:05:00] What keeps E.J. up at night — and what gives him hope.

Memorable Quotes:

"In real argument, you enter imaginatively into the ideas your opponent holds." — E.J. Dionne

"Hope is the virtue on which faith and love depend." — E.J. Dionne

"You can really disagree with people you love, and you can love people you disagree with." — E.J. Dionne

"We find sanctity even in mundane conversations." — Corey Nathan

Resources & Mentions:

• E.J. Dionne, Brookings Institution: www.brookings.edu/people/e-j-dionne

• Column, New York Times: www.nytimes.com/by/e-j-dionne-jr

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It’s not about agreeing on everything. It’s about disagreeing with integrity, and listening with love.