What if the people building AI are so caught up in the rush to market that they’ve forgotten to ask the most important question: what does this mean for humanity? In this refreshingly honest episode, we explore the human side of artificial intelligence with Danielle McClune, a writer and poet who has spent the last years at the epicenter of AI development at Microsoft, training conversational models and crafting the prompts that shape how AI communicates with millions of users worldwide.

Danielle takes us behind the scenes of AI development with a perspective that’s rare in the tech industry – one grounded in creative writing, poetry, and a deep concern for preserving our humanity in an increasingly automated world. From her Substack “Soft Coded” writing that challenges the industry’s relentless optimism to her daily work training models to sound human while remembering they’re not, Danielle offers a critical yet nuanced view of where AI is headed and what we might be losing along the way.

Throughout our conversation, Danielle reveals the absurdity of charging users for saying “please” and “thank you” to AI while encouraging human-like interaction, questions why we’re bolting chat interfaces onto existing software instead of reimagining human-computer interaction, and argues for maintaining the “uncanny valley” as a crucial reminder that we’re not talking to someone with a childhood. Her vision for AI as a public utility and her insights into what the technology might look like if women had led its development offer provocative alternatives to the current Silicon Valley narrative.

In this conversation, we explore:

• Why saying “please” and “thank you” to AI reveals deeper contradictions in how we’re building the technology
• The rush to add chat interfaces to everything instead of reimagining user experiences from scratch
• Why the uncanny valley might be a feature, not a bug, in human-AI interaction
• How “vibe checks” and human intuition remain essential in evaluating AI output
• The case for treating AI as a public utility rather than private corporate property
• Why training AI models feels like “raising a toddler” and often becomes “women’s work”

This episode is an invitation to slow down, ask harder questions, and remember that behind every AI interaction is a human being whose life might be changed – for better or worse – by the choices we make today.

Resources Mentioned

Soft Coded is Danielle’s excellent Substack

Ruined by Design – Mike Monteiro’s book

Design for the Real World – Victor Papanek

Connect with Danielle

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielle-mcclune-2b35b95b/

Substack: https://softcoded.substack.com/

Bio

Danielle McClune is a writer and poet embedded in the frontier of AI development at Microsoft, where she has spent the last two years training conversational models and

Send us a text

Get in touch: ben@poetsandthinkers.co

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/

Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484

Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd

Humans are multisensory beings. What if the tiny sounds you hear from your devices every day are literally vibrating through your body, changing your nervous system, and collectively creating decades of audio pollution? And what do we do about it in an age where generative AI is likely going to add even more noise?

In this fascinating episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the profound intersection of sound, technology, and human experience with Matthew Bennett, a composer, sound artist, and sensory designer who led sound design at Microsoft for 12 years. From his home studio in Seattle, Matthew reveals how he shaped the sonic experience of billions of people worldwide while pioneering a new paradigm for technology sound design.

Matthew takes us on a journey through the science of sound as sensory experience – not just something we hear, but a form of touch that vibrates our entire body and changes our physiology. He shares mind-blowing insights about how Microsoft’s tiny notification sounds, when multiplied across hundreds of millions of users, created decades of sound pollution daily – and how his team cut 10 years off that global audio footprint by shortening sounds by just one second. Through the lens of neuroaesthetics and multisensory design, Matthew illustrates why our digital experiences are always multisensory whether we intend them to be or not.

Throughout our conversation, Matthew challenges the current AI music generation hype, revealing how these tools expose the formulaic nature of popular music while lacking the human intention and authenticity that gives art its soul. He advocates for a “do no harm” approach to sound design, emphasizing the importance of designing silence and understanding that unexpected sounds can hijack our brains and trigger fight-or-flight responses. His vision for Musical Sensory Environments and precision therapies offers a glimpse into how sound can heal rather than harm.

In this discussion, we explore:

• Why sound is actually a special form of touch that vibrates through your entire body
• How tiny notification sounds create decades of global audio pollution daily
• The ethics of multisensory design and the responsibility that comes with scale
• Why AI-generated music reveals the formulaic nature of popular genres
• How neuroesthetics can become essential literacy for designers and leaders
• The difference between human intention and statistical pattern matching in creativity

This episode is an invitation to understand sound as a powerful force that shapes our digital ecosystems, our physical well-being, and our human connections – and to approach the creation of sensory experiences with the care and intention they deserve.

Resources Mentioned

• Jaron Lanier’ work
• World Health Organization (WHO) research on noise pollution as global health crisis
• Neuroaesthetics research and fMRI studies on brain responses to sound
• Musical Sensory Environments – Matthew’s pioneering approach to immersive audio

Connect with Matthew Bennett:

Website: https://soundandsensory.com/

Send us a text

Get in touch: ben@poetsandthinkers.co

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/

Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484

Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd

What if venture capital is finally getting the reset it desperately needed? And what does that mean for the qualities and skills required for future founders, startup leaders, and even investors? In this episode of Poets & Thinkers, we explore the future of venture capital and startup building with Pascal Unger, managing partner at pre-seed VC firm focal. From his base in Miami, Pascal brings a unique perspective shaped by his Swiss roots and global experiences spanning coding, consulting at BCG, and finance before diving into the venture world.

Pascal takes us on a journey through the evolution of software – from systems of record in the 1980s to systems of engagement in the 2000s, and now to systems of intelligence that can automate entire workflows rather than just optimize them. He reveals why this shift is creating what many VCs believe to be the largest market opportunity in history, as software can now target not just software budgets but headcount budgets and enable companies to do exponentially more with existing resources.

Through compelling examples of how his portfolio companies are building data moats and reducing friction to adoption, Pascal illustrates what it takes to win in this new paradigm. However, this platform shift also challenges the VC model to its core because small teams can now go further and faster than ever, start generating revenue early, without requiring to raise a lot of venture capital.

Pascal challenges conventional wisdom about startup building, arguing that distribution and go-to-market strategy are now more critical than ever before. He shares his framework for assessing founders across six key dimensions – from learning speed to moral compass. His insights on the “liftoff round” concept and the compression of funding cycles offer a glimpse into how venture capital itself is being reimagined for the AI era.

In our discussion, we explore:

• Why software is evolving from optimizing workflows to automating entire outcomes
• How the trust barrier affects AI adoption and why humans still need to stay in the loop
• Why data moats and distribution strategies are more crucial than ever for startups
• The six dimensions investors should use to assess founders in an AI-first world
• How building has become more efficient while the bar for initial products has risen dramatically
• Why Europe risks becoming a “museum” due to lack of adaptability
• Where the VC industry is struggling and how it needs to reinvent itself to stay relevant

This episode is an invitation to understand how the fundamental rules of software, venture capital, and startup building are being rewritten in the AI era – and what it takes to thrive rather than just survive in this new paradigm.

Topics

02:45 - Pascal’s journey from Switzerland to BCG to founding Focal VC

05:10 - The evolution of software: from systems of record to engagement to intelligence

07:25 - Why systems of intelligence represent the biggest market opportunity in history

09:50 - The role of trust in AI adoption and keeping humans in the loop

13:35 - How startups can compete against foundation model providers with proprietary data

16:20 - Building data moats through integration strategies and reducing friction

20:25 - Trust-building measures for startups in high-stakes vs. low-risk use cases

24:10 - Why the minimum bar for softwar

Send us a text

Get in touch: ben@poetsandthinkers.co

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/poetsandthinkerspodcast/

Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/poets-thinkers/id1799627484

Subscribe to Poets & Thinkers on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4N4jnNEJraemvlHIyUZdww?si=2195345fa6d249fd