Permission to Be Messy: Punk Wisdom for Leaders

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What if real leadership isn’t about being impressive… but being responsive?

In this second Untamed Leader Conversation, Lauri Smith welcomes back Bridget Baker (founder & CEO of Bridget Baker Branding) and Brian Perry (story and authentic communication coach, singer-songwriter) for an intimate, wide-ranging exploration of what it means to lead—and speak—without the cage.

Together, they unpack leadership as stewardship and service, what it means to follow the room (even when it’s “squishy”), and why the most transformational moments often begin in white space, not-knowing, and permission to be messy.

They also name the sneaky ways we get “tamed”—by shoulds, boxes, perfection, even success—and how untaming isn’t a leap straight into wildness… it’s a liminal threshold where you deconstruct, let go slowly, and learn to trust what’s essential.

If you’ve been trying to lead, speak, or build your work the “right” way—and something in you is done performing for the box—this one is for you.

At the end, Lauri shares details for the Untamed Leader Retreat (January 15–16, 2026).

Takeaways

1. Leadership is about lifting people up, not placing them beneath you.
2. Servant leadership is real- an act of stewardship - not ego performance.
3. Untamed leadership means you’re shaped by the moment.
Not a fixed “guru shtick,” but a living responsiveness to what’s actually happening.
4. Follow the room: If half the raft is falling out, your job is to notice and adjust—not plow ahead.
5. Online leadership is harder when you can’t read the room—so you must build in space.
Silence and processing time can create safety and depth when cameras are off.
6. You have to know what’s “tame” (for you) before you can untame.
7. The first phase of untaming can feel like blankness. When you’re letting go of an old habit, sometimes you sit in white space until a truer choice emerges.
8. Overprepare so you can throw it away.
The goal isn’t structure perfection—it’s truth, essence, and what serves now.
9. Permission is the doorway: permission to be messy, to n

Untamed Leader Retreat
A virtual UNsummit for leaders ready to listen before they leap.

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