Patterns To Look Out for In Your Relationship with Dave Cawley

If you’re wondering, “Is my relationship safe?” It’s important to look at patterns of abusive behavior. Physical abuse never happens without emotional abuse, so the first step is to understand the patterns of emotional abuse. To discover if your husband is using any one of the 19 different types of emotional abuse, take our free emotional abuse quiz. This Is the Second Episode With Dave CawleyWarning Signs Your Husband Is Dangerous – Susan’s Story With Dave CawleyPatterns To Look Out For In Your Relationship (THIS EPISODE) Transcript: Is My Husband Abusing Me? Anne: I’ve invited Dave Cawley, an investigative journalist and host of the Cold podcast, back on today’s episode. We have already talked about season one of the Cold Podcast, which we re-aired last week. He calls that episode Signs your Husband might kill You. It’s important for every woman experiencing emotional and psychological abuse to recognize it, and know is my husband abusing me? Because physical abuse never happens in a vacuum. Dave and I will talk as if you’ve heard all the Cold podcasts, seasons one, two, and three. And if you haven’t, don’t worry. You’ll still benefit from listening to our analysis as we discuss the themes of all three seasons. Welcome Dave. Dave: Thank you so much, Anne. I appreciate being with you. Anne: So the three seasons of the Cold podcast, Dave, you cover in season one, the murder of Susan Powell. In season two, the Murder of Joyce Yost. And in season three, the murder of Sheree Warren. And you started season three by introducing us to a man named Cary Hartman. You describe his abusive behavior toward women in the form of what some people might call prank phone calls. Law enforcement called it an obscene phone call. Really, these phone calls abused the women who received them. Even if they didn’t realize it. And even if they didn’t define it that way. Can you talk about why these abusive phone calls define Cary’s character? Dave: Sheree Warren disappears in October of 1985. She was dating this man, Cary Hartman at the time, and at first Cary Hartman is not on the radar of the investigators. Cary Hartman’s Criminal Activities Dave: Police identified Cary Hartman as a suspect in a series of home invasion assaults a year and a half later. Where he literally breaks into women’s homes and attacks them, raping them. And so I actually start this story way before we ever meet Sheree with Cary Hartman’s first arrest in 1971. Where he makes one of these calls, he tells this woman, basically a threat, that if he she will be harmed if he doesn’t get what he wants. And to your point, Anne, she was a victim. He abused abused her, right? Anne: Yeah, at the time you interviewed her, did she recognize she was a victim of his abuse? Or did she just think like, oh, a criminal called me and I helped the police identify this guy? Dave: At this point in her life, she was I wanna say about 86 years old when I interviewed her. Heidi Posnien, she’s an amazing woman, but her life experience was so different. I mean, she literally survived Berlin at the end of World War II as a child. And so her perception of how much risk she may or may not have been in at the time. I think it is different than you or I in the same situation. And I think like many victims of abuse, she doesn’t like thinking about whether her husband is abusing her. When I sat down and interviewed her about it, it brought up bad memories even after all these years. It brought up emotions that she was uncomfortable with. You do this kind of thing. Systemic Issues In Recognizing Abuse Dave: Every day Anne, talking to people who have been through abuse. You know how difficult those conversations are. I was grateful Heidi was willing to take us there for the story. Because it allows the listener to begin to see the bigger picture. Like, what are the systemic things that are taking place in our society? That caused these kinds of things to be brushed off? It’s a minor crime, voyeurism, telephone harassment and nothing serious. Anne: He has all these abusive episodes. Law enforcement doesn’t define them that way. There’s a difference between an obscene phone call, which is what they had written on their documents, right? And an abusive phone call. Like when people say something like, one out of every four women are domestic abuse victims in the state of Utah. Then women wonder is my husband abusing me and if so how do I divorce an abusive husband? They’re not saying a man abuses one out of every four women in the state of Utah. Dave: Yeah, that’s a great point. I think, the investigators at the time, thought they caught him. He’s shamed, he’ll change. And if you have that perspective in law enforcement, you’ve gotta step back and look at it and say pattern wise, like what is happening here? And with Cary Hartman, we know these phone calls escalated over time. He ends up calling thousands of women in a harassing ...