In this episode, we are joined by Brendan Rosseau and Matthew Weinzierl co-authors of Space to Grow: Unlocking the Final Economic Frontier. This episode is a journey, metaphorically speaking, into the beyond: outer space itself.

Matthew is a Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School, and the Senior Associate Dean and Chair of the MBA program, where his award-winning research and teaching focus on economic policy and the business of space. He is the founder of the Economics of Space project at HBS and serves as an adviser on space to government agencies, companies, and investors.

Brendan is a recognized leader in the space industry. He works in strategy at Blue Origin (the space company wholly owned by Jeff Bezos). He previously served as a teaching fellow and research associate at Harvard Business School and as a consultant to the U.S. Space Force. He is dedicated to using space technologies to bring about a more prosperous, peaceful, equitable and exciting future.

In this episode, we explore the boundaries, and intersection, of fundamental laws of economics within the context of the rapidly developing space industry or market. We also glean insights on how other markets have and will evolve: the automobile industry, ecommerce, precision farming and potentially the economies around AI or blockchain.

If we understand these underlying economic forces, we can more accurately anticipate when and how such new markets will emerge and, in the case of space, it may be coming much sooner than most of us outside of the space industry think.

In this episode, we discuss:

• How the space industry and space technology have the potential to—and will—disrupt many business industries as we know them today
• The fascinating evolution of NASA as a government-funded R&D entity to a private sector ‘market creator’ acting as a “customer among many customers” so they can pave the way for space innovation
• The fundamental economic laws that govern how the space industry will evolve—and how markets here on earth will evolve as well
• The near-term financial opportunities you may not be thinking of that are providing a kind of economic bridge from private sector actors (who need near-term profit) and long-term players (like the government or large corporations who have the funding to pursue the opportunities offered by the moon and Mars)
• How the rapid formation of a space industry will directly impact companies in nearly every sector, even those with no obvious connection to space

Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:28—Introducing Matthew and Brendan + the topic of today’s episode
05:37—If you really know me, you know that...
07:03—What is your definition of strategy?
09:14—What are near-term opportunities the space industry will open?
12:15—Some use cases of revenue opportunities from space
17:39—Introducing the Evergreen '7 Ps'
19:40—How has the role of NASA changed over time?
29:26—What are things that need to be in place to realize the market of space?
32:14—The governing laws of space
37:32—How will competition of the space markets unfold?
40:17—What mov

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Dave Whorton is a tech investor and founder who spent 20 years of his career at the highest levels of Silicon Valley venture capital and tech startups. At the preeminent tech venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins, he worked directly with John Doerr for several years. He cofounded four companies, including drugstore.com and Good Technology.

This episode is longer than our usual shorter format—and with good reason. It's about companies that last longer. We dive deep into the world of evergreen businesses—those built to adapt and grow profitably for 100 years and more. Think of these as the direct juxtaposition to venture capital-funded enterprises—where those are built with the sole intention of selling, going public or shutting down if not performing, evergreen businesses are built to endure.

In 2013, Dave founded Tugboat Institute to connect, support, and inspire purpose-driven leaders of these businesses, and this upcoming May 2025, Dave, with Bo Burlingham, releases Another Way: Building Companies that Last...and Last...and Last. In this episode, we uncover some of the most profound insights from his book, so many of which fly in the face of current, common, dogmas around innovation and entrepreneurship, including:

• Why the companies VCs most often tout today as exemplars of greatness (Google, Microsoft) took very little VC funding—and why you should probably avoid VC investors as well
• The fact that the size of venture capital market has exploded multifold since 1999 and what that means for nature of how businesses are built and operate today
• The “Evergreen 7Ps” that characterize these companies, and specific case studies and examples of companies that live these values. Two of my favorites:
  • They pace their growth—and avoid hyperscaling
  • They pursue pragmatic innovation, rather than radical breakthrough innovation

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:02—Introducing Dave + the topic of today’s episode
03:19—If you really know me, you know that...
06:23—What is your definition of strategy?
09:00—Explaining the evolution of venture capital in the past 50 years
12:02—The pitfalls of taking venture capital
17:39—Introducing the Evergreen '7 Ps'
24:12—How to know if a business' pace of growth is healthy
26:50—People as a critical part of your strategy
33:58—Pragmatic innovation in evergreen businesses
38:53—What public companies could adopt from the 7 Ps to behave more like evergreen businesses
45:00—How can people can keep learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davewhorton/
Link to book: https://www.tugboatinstitute.com/anotherway/

The Tugboat Institute: https://www.tugboatinstitute.com/

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Cindy Anderson is the Chief Marketing Officer/Global Lead for Engagement & Eminence at the IBM Institute for Business Value (IBV). Cindy has co-authored research reports, published numerous articles, and delivered presentations on thought leadership, diversity, strategy implementation, project management, and technology to global audiences.

She is a founding board member of the Global Thought Leadership Institute at APQC, a new association that advances the practice of thought leadership, and as you heard in the highlight clip, she is passionate about helping organizations quantify the tangible benefits and critical role of thought leadership. In this episode we dive into her just-published book The ROI of Thought Leadership: Calculating the Value that Sets Organizations Apart, which she co-authored with Anthony Marshall. As you know, almost every guest we have on this podcast is a thought-leader in some form and in this episode we get to actually explore the topic of thought-leadership itself.

In this episode we discuss the role of thought leadership, and its interrelation to an organization's various branches through highlights from her book The ROI of Thought Leadership.

In this episode, Cindy shares:

• How thought leadership is in fact, quantifiable, and what her organization’s research reveals are the top metrics that indicate the value delivered
• How organizations can leverage thought leadership to grow their brand’s authority and credibility—and what to avoid in damaging it
• The types of content you can deliver in thought leadership, with pointed markers of what makes good content (as well as what formats are in or out among content consumers)
• The role of GenAI within thought leadership—and why it cannot (and to a degree must not) be taken as thought leadership itself

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
01:14—Introducing Cindy + the topic of today’s episode
03:55—If you really know me, you know that...
06:05—What is your definition of strategy?
07:20—Quantifying thought leadership
11:30—Three core metrics for evaluating thought leadership
13:40—Thought leadership’s role in reaching ecosystems and partners
15:40—Placement of thought leadership in organizations
19:01—Key aspects of good content
21:18—Independence and trust as critical success levers
24:05—The enduring value of PowerPoint, books, and print for executives
26:55—The role of AI in thought leadership
33:05—Content portfolio for thought leadership
36:45—Individual vs. organizational thought leadership
39:35—Key takeaway on thought leadership’s value
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Additional Resources:
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/clwanderson48
Link to book: Thought Leadership

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast