In this episode, I'm joined by the returning Michele Hansen, co-founder and CEO of Geocodio and author of Deploy Empathy, now out with a second edition. Michele brings deep experience as a former product manager turned founder, and has spent over a decade helping teams understand customers through rigorous, human-centred research.

We explore what customer research looks like in an AI-accelerated world: where AI genuinely helps, where it falls short, and why talking to real people remains irreplaceable. Along the way, we dig into interviewing craft, curiosity, synthetic users, and some enduring myths that still undermine product discovery.

We cover a lot, including:

• Why customer interviews still matter in the age of AI - why large language models can accelerate research workflows but cannot replace the insight, judgement, and transformation that comes from engaging directly with customers.
• AI as a research intern, not a strategist - AI performs well in certain tasks - transcription, tagging, and basic analysis - but prioritisation, interpretation, and strategy must remain human responsibilities.
• The neuroscience of listening and curiosity - both interviewees and interviewers experience genuine pleasure when curiosity is satisfied, reframing interviews as a mutually rewarding process rather than a chore.
• What AI misses in real customer conversations - considering the "spiky", unexpected insights that emerge in interviews - and why these often get lost when teams rely too heavily on automated summaries.
• Synthetic users, digital twins, and their limits - breaking down different types of simulated users, where they can be useful, and why they depend on high-quality human research to be credible at all.
• The problem with the "faster horses" myth - dismantling the misattributed Henry Ford quote and exploring how it's often used to avoid engaging with customers rather than to encourage innovation.
• Research as a way to change teams, not just products - how involving teams directly in research builds shared understanding, alignment, and better decision-making across organisations.
• Why AI accelerates confusion without product clarity - AI only compounds impact when a clear product vision and customer understanding already exist - otherwise, teams simply move faster in the wrong direction.

• Learn more about Michele's company, Geocodio: https://www.geocod.io/
• Check out the new edition of "Deploy Empathy": https://deployempathy.com/.
• Connect with Michele on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mjwhansen/
• Meet Michele at the pub in London! We'll be there on Jan 15th 2026: https://luma.com/xyqi9e2z

On this episode, I speak to Tim Herbig, long-time product management coach, speaker, and author of the new book "Real Progress". Tim has worked with companies like StepStone, Chrono24, Deutsche Telekom and Specsavers, and has spent years helping product managers stop hiding behind frameworks and start making a meaningful impact. His work focuses on helping teams connect product strategy, OKRs and discovery without falling into the trap of rigid process correctness.

• Alibi Progress vs Real Progress - how teams hide behind "the right way" of doing things, obsessing over methods and templates instead of asking whether any of it actually works
• The Progress Wheel - Tim's diagnostic loop that ties strategy, OKRs and discovery together so teams can see where they're actually stuck and what to do next
• The three attributes of good product strategy: Decisiveness, Layering and Executability
• How to handle OKRs when leadership gives you metrics you can’t influence using zones of control and contribution
• How to sell discovery to sceptical stakeholders - by framing it as "protecting the company's investment", not a fluffy UX ritual
• Reverse-mapping discovery when you're handed a solution - even if you have to build it, work backwards to define the outcome
• Why frameworks should be starting points, not destinations - and why Tim would be disappointed if anyone adopted his wheel dogmatically

... And much more.

You can grab a copy of Real Progress here:

• Tim's site: https://herbig.co/real-progress-book/
• Amazon UK: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/398275190X

• Website: https://herbig.co
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/herbigt/

On this episode, I speak to Sean O'Neill. Sean is the Chief Product & Technology Officer at Syncron, and an executive product leader with a storied career spanning companies like Amazon, Tesco, and GfK. We bond over our shared history at GfK, speak about how Amazon has influenced his product thinking, how it's developed since he moved on, and his approach to portfolio management and right-sizing investments across the product portfolio.

We cover a lot, including:

• There's no greater crime than building something the universe doesn't need: Sean's ten key product principles that he lists on LinkedIn - first developed at Tesco - all matter, but building pointless stuff tops his list of product sins.
• Use the right tool for the job: Amazon shaped Sean's product DNA, but he's clear that context is king - you can't simply transplant Big Tech practices into legacy environments and expect them to work wholesale.
• Most companies under-invest in their strategy: When progress stalls, it's usually because teams are spread too thin across BAU work and one-off feature requests. The best product firms align time and capacity to strategic bets (or admit that they're a professional services company).
• Adopt a portfolio mindset: Sean's capital allocation framework helps leaders size and re-balance investments, ensuring resources go where they'll have the biggest impact - and revisiting regularly (but not too regularly) to stay honest.
• Learn the language of money: Too many product leaders avoid finance. Sean argues that financial literacy isn't optional if you want credibility with the board and real influence on business outcomes. Learn the numbers!

You can connect with Sean on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanon/. There you'll find a number of articles, including the one we discuss in this interview: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/you-dont-need-more-engineers-better-strategic-bets-sean-o-neill-s0vze/

You can connect with special guest interviewer Sterling O'Neill on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sterlingoneill/.